Andy Larsen's Article from Last Night - A Local Guy Going Hard

[Mongoose]

Because almost none of the issues last night can be attributed to Conley. The only real issue I see with Conley, other than his up and down play, is that he pushes Royce and Joe out of the roles they were successful in. Now once again, that is not a Mike issue. That is a coaching issue and an issue of Joe and Royce not being good enough to adapt.

Holy... None of the issues are related to Mike? He certainly has not been part of any solutions... He has sucked all year!!!! He is the highest paid player!!!! How come he cannot be good enough to adapt!!!! Why would you expect that from everyone but Mike? Did you read the comment from nateboz that I quoted? So is mike not a team leader that can answer tough questions about where the team is and why they are struggling? The media tells us that hes a great locker room guy and that hes such a great dude and he oozes leadership yada yada....

If he was anywhere near the kind of leader this team needed him to be to get a deep playoff run he would be the guy staring down these questions. He would not be the guy missing half the year, sitting out back to back games, never answering to the media, and playing like ***. So far Mike is a huge fraud and we got swindled by the Grizzlies. If i was getting paid 30M a year I'd want to be answering to Beer because then I can point the finger at the role players and coaching staff.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

We don't have the gritty guys anymore... we need more toughness... Last night Oubre dunked around Gobert… then flexed and did some stupid *** head nod in his face. He then laughed and pranced around the court like he was a 4 year old in disneyland and just got his ****ing mickey ears...

Rudy did nothing... his teammates did nothing... we didn't even make the ****ing technical... Not saying Jae would have shoved him, but he'd have said something. Even Favs would occasionally just be like "hell no I'm not having it" and shove some fools. We don't have that. Even Ricky would get under people's skin... not like Jae, but he wasn't afraid of confrontation.

We are too nice.. we helping dudes up and are afraid of confrontation... I would go get Joakim Noah if he's healthy. That ************* showed more willingness to compete and be confrontational in a pickup game this summer than we showed last night (the infamous Devin Booker no double teams out here clip from the summer). We need a loud energetic *******... he seems to check a lot of boxes.

 

[nateboz]

Because almost none of the issues last night can be attributed to Conley. The only real issue I see with Conley, other than his up and down play, is that he pushes Royce and Joe out of the roles they were successful in. Now once again, that is not a Mike issue. That is a coaching issue and an issue of Joe and Royce not being good enough to adapt.

He had 3 fouls in about 10 minutes. He was a huge issue.

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

 

[Mongoose]

Because almost none of the issues last night can be attributed to Conley. The only real issue I see with Conley, other than his up and down play, is that he pushes Royce and Joe out of the roles they were successful in. Now once again, that is not a Mike issue. That is a coaching issue and an issue of Joe and Royce not being good enough to adapt.

If every time I worked with a guy my job got harder and he got paid twice as much as me, I'd have an issue with that.

 

[Beer]

He pushes like three guys out of roles on defense that they are better suited for. He kills any defensive matchup versatility. That isn't a Mike problem per se... but more a front office issue. Instead of everyone having adequate size or above average size we are at a size disadvantage.


Mike also has no chemistry with Rudy... Joe does... if Mike is out there just spacing the floor it isn't the best use of his talents. He doesn't seem to get separation either, so he's not creating a ton of looks for himself or others.

It doesn't work... regardless of what the coaches do. Joe and Royce aren't the "borderline all-stars" … it is Mike that should be good enough to adapt... and he has not been.

I generally agree with this. But once again, that is on Quin to get players playing with the right lineups and putting players in positions they succeed the most. Thats not Mikes fault. No reason to blame him.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

I generally agree with this. But once again, that is on Quin to get players playing with the right lineups and putting players in positions they succeed the most. Thats not Mikes fault. No reason to blame him.

there is a blame pie... mike gets a slice... but it is smaller than the slice I'd give Quin and the front office. Mike is an easy target here.

From my perspective I see Mike as the guy who has been least effective on offense of our top 7 guys... except Royce. Royce is out there for defense and honestly has played his offensive role pretty well. Mike doesn't give us much on defense and some nights is an outright liability. He wasn't good last night but none of our guys on defense were good. So Mike definitely gets some big picture blame pie. He's not played up to his standards (for whatever reason)... he needs to play better.

 

[Beer]

Holy... None of the issues are related to Mike? He certainly has not been part of any solutions... He has sucked all year!!!! He is the highest paid player!!!! How come he cannot be good enough to adapt!!!! Why would you expect that from everyone but Mike? Did you read the comment from nateboz that I quoted? So is mike not a team leader that can answer tough questions about where the team is and why they are struggling? The media tells us that hes a great locker room guy and that hes such a great dude and he oozes leadership yada yada....

If he was anywhere near the kind of leader this team needed him to be to get a deep playoff run he would be the guy staring down these questions. He would not be the guy missing half the year, sitting out back to back games, never answering to the media, and playing like ***. So far Mike is a huge fraud and we got swindled by the Grizzlies. If i was getting paid 30M a year I'd want to be answering to Beer because then I can point the finger at the role players and coaching staff.

I'm talking about everyone on the team losing their man on D, rotations being slow or non-existent, Rudy playing at about 70% energy since he got the AS nod, Don just playing god awful in every aspect (sans last night), Bogey shooting terribly the last month, Royce and Joe not being able to throw it in the ocean even on wide wide open 3's.

I get it, he's been a disappointment for sure. But he isn't causing all these problems all the sudden. He is a problem and he does cause problems, but the Jazz weren't going anywhere without him playing at a very high level so its worth a shot to try and force him in and hope they can figure stuff out. IMO at least.

 

[Deleted member 95]

please, can someone copy the article and put it here? in Italy I can't read The Salt Lake Tribune ..

I'll pm you

 

[sahlensguy]

Dude went at the team hard... and when I say he went at the team... he went at them all. His last couple paragraphs on DL/JZ were especially pertinent imo. With how bad a fit Green and Davis were how did we think that would work? As a couch GM I knew the stuff I'd watched and raw numbers, but didn't realize how small Davis was, how he can't protect the rim much, and how he's basically a walking turnover in the pick and roll. Our GMs should know that... Green was a m

inimum guy and we needed a guy so whatevs.

Go read his article... he deserves your clicks... good job andy (not sure he has an account here anymore or I'd send it to his handle.)​

https://www.sltrib.com/sports/jazz/2020/02/25/jazz-suns-analysis-by/

It's not about Green and Davis as much as it is about every other player DL/JZ has brought in imo. No one since Exum was an effective on ball defender that could share the court with Gobert (outside of O'Neil). They found Rudy zero help at what he does best. Instead they built teams that funnelled the ball into him. Instead of helping our cornerstone, everyone leaned on him. Everyone. No wonder he's burnt out.

 

[David Ginola 14]

I'll pm you

Thanks..

 

[NAOS]

It's not about Green and Davis as much as it is about every other player DL/JZ has brought in imo. No one since Exum was an effective on ball defender that could share the court with Gobert (outside of O'Neil). They found Rudy zero help at what he does best. Instead they built teams that funnelled the ball into him. Instead of helping our cornerstone, everyone leaned on him. Everyone. No wonder he's burnt out.

I can defend the philosophy of focusing less on defense once Rudy emerged by calling your attention to the way the New England Patriots invested in building receiving cores for Tom Brady, but I’ve run out of energy.

My conclusion is that the problem is pretty ****ing deep into the “intangibles”... like the mental side of things, and the motivations of the leaders. If these are the problems, if doesn’t matter whether you have a cast of “defenders” or “bucket-getters”, etc.

This team needs a Stockton or a Duncan... Someone who is thoroughly over himself and thoroughly committed to ORGANIZATION (over any personal benchmark). They also need to be over certain chemistry issues (our “chemistry” has been sooooo cuuuuuute the past few years) and let winning take center stage, even if it takes a little ugly to get it done.

 

[sahlensguy]

I can defend the philosophy of focusing less on defense once Rudy emerged by calling your attention to the way the New England Patriots invested in building receiving cores for Tom Brady, but I’ve run out of energy.

My conclusion is that the problem is pretty ****ing deep into the “intangibles”... like the mental side of things, and the motivations of the leaders. If these are the problems, if doesn’t matter whether you have a cast of “defenders” or “bucket-getters”, etc.

This team needs a Stockton or a Duncan... Someone who is thoroughly over himself and thoroughly committed to ORGANIZATION (over any personal benchmark). They also need to be over certain chemistry issues (our “chemistry” has been sooooo cuuuuuute the past few years) and let winning take center stage, even if it takes a little ugly to get it done.

I thought about that analogy here. What Brady had though was a very good OL, and Gronk. They did build around Tom Terrific.