Another Betrayward post nobody needs. . .

[cowhide]

I disagree. The Jazz were on the cusp of truly competing. At the same time, I'm not mad that Hayward wasn't into being a Jazz man. That's just the way he felt and there's nothing anybody could have done to change that. I'm ready to move on. The Jazz have an exciting young team with way more cap flexibility than we thought we were going to have (tell a team they can have Favors as long as they take Burks, and boom we've got max money cap space).

Cap Space means nothing if you can't attract free agents. If the Jazz can't convince a white boy from Indiana to stay in Utah how they going to attract some African American kid. He even took less money so the argument he was insulted about not getting the Max his first time around is total BS.

He couldn't wait to get out of Utah and probably has been planning it for awhile. I don't really care too much, it isn't like he was a HOF type player. He took the easy route. Not saying he isn't talented nor that he had the right to leave. However, he comes across as a phony the way he handle it.

I am convinced that he had already made up his mind and he was just playing every one so he could write his blog. I don't need a thank you (fake) or excuses like it was a family choice (if it were then he should have been up front about it). The worse thing I can say about some one is that they are a phony and Gordon is a major phony. So I am already done with him. Hope he doesn't win a championship and I would love it if the Jazz were in the finals against them one day.

 

[NUMBERICA]

Agree with the first statement. Disagree with the second. Special? Not special enough to make an all-NBA team.

One of the most efficient high-scorers in the league. Probably the most able to adapt to any team, system, and other players.

I guess that ended up ****ing us but whatever.

 

[JFFR]

He is definitely in the top 75th percentile of max players.

Max guys include dudes like Harrison Barnes, Enes Kanter, Reggie Jackson, Otto Porter, Andre Drummond, etc.

Clarify - Max players on their third contract.

(Does that work?)

 

[actusreus]

He did lots of things well, and nothing really well.

He wasn't special. There are only 7 special players in this league: KD, Curry, LeBron, Harden, Westbrook, Kawhai, and Anthony Davis. And then there are really really good players, including Paul, Antekowhatever, Wall, IT, Butler, Lillard, and Paul George. Gordon maybe, on his best days, cracks into the second tier. And yes, I can admit it's sour grapes, and yes, as I said above, he did a lot for our team, but he's one, probably two steps from special. I'm deeply unimpressed by the strength of his character, and my comments are colored by that just now, no question, but my feeling that he's not special isn't new.

 

[cowhide]

Why is everyone so afraid to admit this sucks and Hayward was great? Did he overachieve? Hell yeah, and that is what made him a great player. He wasnt done either.

Boston may not give him the same individual statistical leap that Utah could have as a clear cut #1, but he will get better in Boston like he did every year in Utah.

Stopped acting like a guy who raised his scoring every year in the league and got better every year in the league was just another guy, he wasn't.

Can someone, or a committee of guys replace Hayward's scoring? Sure, but we aren't going to find any one player who can give us all that he did.

People aren't saying he isn't a very good player and a hard worker. People are upset because of the way it went down. It is like when a girl breaks up with you, you hate on her but you still might think she is hot. People are upset because the Jazz did a lot to help GOrdon become who he is. Heck he was still working out with our trainer. So with all the time and money invested, he just walks away. People have a right to be pissed. So when people are angry a lot of times they say BS to make themselves feel better.

 

[Hekate]

He did lots of things well, and nothing really well.

He wasn't special. There are only 7 special players in this league: KD, Curry, LeBron, Harden, Westbrook, Kawhai, and Anthony Davis. And then there are really really good players, including Paul, Antekowhatever, Wall, IT, Butler, Lillard, and Paul George. Gordon maybe, on his best days, cracks into the second tier. And yes, I can admit it's sour grapes, and yes, as I said above, he did a lot for our team, but he's one, probably two steps from special. I'm deeply unimpressed by the strength of his character, and my comments are colored by that just now, no question, but my feeling that he's not special isn't new.

Gordon was the 7th most efficient high volume scorer in the league with the slowest team and he played at both sides of the floor. He was clearly better than George, Butler, Lillard and Giannis.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

Clarify - Max players on their third contract.

(Does that work?)

Yeah, that would be a better measurement.

And I dont know. I would have to see a list of guys on their 3rd contract, maxed out.

It would be guys like Gasol, Horford, Curry, Lebron, CP3, Griffin, Lowry, DeRozan, Westbrook, Batum, Conley, Parons, Love, Holiday and Carmelo.

I think Hayward would be above Gasol/Horford/Griffin/Derozan/Melo/Holiday/Batum/Love/Parsons/Conley for sure. Could argue over Lowry (and I would say in 3 years he will surely be better value).

Not sure who else in on their 3rd or higher max deal. KD took a discount, so he's not on one.

So yeah, he is pretty high on that list also.

It's a giant loss.

It would probably suck to max Hayward a 4th time (the huge contract you can get for having 10 years xp), but I think the next 3 years of Boston paying him are going to be good value for the player he is. But we all know Haywrd/Boston is probably going to work out well enough to where he is probably taking discounts to stay into his mid 30's.

 

[actusreus]

Clearly better than those 4 players? I suppose we'll have to agree to disagree. I'd trade him for Giannis in an instant, and probably the other three too. And all but George are more loyal. Besides, you just compared him to four of the players I said were really really good, which I'm conceding about him, and none of the seven I named as special. Speaks volumes.

 

[actusreus]

Clearly better than those 4 players? I suppose we'll have to agree to disagree. I'd trade him for Giannis in an instant, and probably the other three too. And all but George are more loyal. Besides, you just compared him to four of the players I said were really really good, which I'm conceding about him, and none of the seven I named as special. Speaks volumes.

Sorry, responding to Hekate!

 

[Hekate]

Clearly better than those 4 players? I suppose we'll have to agree to disagree. I'd trade him for Giannis in an instant, and probably the other three too. And all but George are more loyal. Besides, you just compared him to four of the players I said were really really good, which I'm conceding about him, and none of the seven I named as special. Speaks volumes.

No-one ever claimed he was better than those 7. He was the best offensive player we had and possibly could get. There is no point in denying that or portraying him worse than he was.

 

[actusreus]

No-one ever claimed he was better than those 7. He was the best offensive player we had and possibly could get. There is no point in denying that or portraying him worse than he was.

Andre Drummond is the best player the Pistons have. Does that make him special?

 

[DutchJazzer]

These are the facts:

He's never been that good. He overachieved, and was the central piece in an offense that had no choice but to make him so. This clears a spot to build around someone better suited to that role.

He never really took to Utah, a place which, for a lot of obvious reasons, was practically hand-made for him.

Everyone knows that even if we signed him, we'd all have been thinking, thirty seconds post euphoria: okay, now what? We're still a 5th seed, with no chance of moving up, and there are no big names left to acquire, nor the means to acquire them.

If all these great friends, and teammates, and extra money,and everyone who's kissed his *** for 7 years end up paling in comparison to the wiles of a wildly overrated college coach who looks like he's 9, well, nothing was going to keep him here. So **** 'im.

well what do you do when your girlfriend leaves you! you get a better hotter sexier girlfriend. cordon coward is gone.

we got a RUDY GOBERT! the hottest cutest sexiest best girlfriend in the whole NBA!


we do not look back.

on day cordon coward will look at us and will be jealous of the love we have with Gobert

 

[Hekate]

Andre Drummond is the best player the Pistons have. Does that make him special?

I don't get what you are arguing. Hayward is easily a top 20 player, his departure sets us back and his void is hard to fill. It will take at least 2 years of internal growth or a group of players.

 

[bezerkus]

Cheer up. At least we won't have to watch finishes like this anymore (They happened more in one direction than the other, if we are honest with ourselves). https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YWCJTPFWvuQ

 

[actusreus]

I don't get what you are arguing. Hayward is easily a top 20 player, his departure sets us back and his void is hard to fill. It will take at least 2 years of internal growth or a group of players.

That's certainly one way of looking at it. . .the pessimistic way, but alright, if you wanna wallow in it, that's your right. But look, let me be clear, I'm not really arguing that his loss hurts, or that he was a great player. But you said he was a "special" player, and he wasn't. I know "special" is subjective, but I gave you a reference by which to measure "special" when I listed those players, and your own response confirmed your agreement.

 

[Hekate]

That's certainly one way of looking at it. . .the pessimistic way, but alright, if you wanna wallow in it, that's your right. But look, let me be clear, I'm not really arguing that his loss hurts, or that he was a great player. But you said he was a "special" player, and he wasn't. I know "special" is subjective, but I gave you a reference by which to measure "special" when I listed those players, and your own response confirmed your agreement.

Never in my post have I said Hayward was speacial. I said he was a top 20 player. I don't know where you got that or how you think your "mind games" work.

I am not pessimistic about it. I know we have raw talent, people that want to be here. We have one of the best FOs. I am just tired of people disparaging Hayward's talents. Acting like it's nothing. We lost a big part of what made us Jazz, the most fun team since Stockton and Malone.