What's new

Another somewhat convoluted proposal

I don't think you guys are understanding. You're ok with people's rights being taken away because they make a lot of money. That's what this boils down to. Sure they'd still have a nice lifestyle, which they already have, they'd just have less rights than they already do. It's the principal of the idea that matters.
I disagree that their rights would be taken away. What right are they losing again?

Btw right now people have the right to get an abortion. Many people are ok with taking those rights away. Rights get taken away all the time. This would really be no big deal.
 
Also rookies entering the nba don't get to choose where they play for the first 7 or so years of their careers. Poor guys.

Plus even If players didn't get to choose which team they play for then they could simply act like malcontents and force a trade anyway..... like they already do.
 
I don't think you guys are understanding. You're ok with people's rights being taken away because they make a lot of money. That's what this boils down to. Sure they'd still have a nice lifestyle, which they already have, they'd just have less rights than they already do. It's the principal of the idea that matters.

I don't think you are understanding. I'm not saying that I think that they shouldn't get to choose where they play basketball. I'm not saying I want that to happen.
But we both agree if that were the case then they would still have a better lifestyle than a huge percentage of the other humans living on this planet. That's why I wouldn't feel sorry for them.
 
I'm against players being forced to play in a particular city. I think they should have the choice of free agency.
I think it would be wrong to take that choice away.

However if it happened I wouldn't feel sorry for them and would gladly take their place.
 
I'm against players being forced to play in a particular city. I think they should have the choice of free agency.
I think it would be wrong to take that choice away.

However if it happened I wouldn't feel sorry for them and would gladly take their place.

Idk. Generally if I think something is wrong, I feel sorry for those who have to go through that wrong. Doesn't matter if they're rich or not.
 
Idk. Generally if I think something is wrong, I feel sorry for those who have to go through that wrong. Doesn't matter if they're rich or not.
For me it isn't about being rich. It's about looking at the overall big picture for a person's situation to determine if I feel sorry for them.

Would it suck if they couldn't pick which team they play for? Sure. Does that negative outweigh all the positives in their situation? Not even close. There are so many perks to being an nba basketball player that one negative isn't enough to outweigh all the positives to where I would feel sorry for them.

Like I said before..... do you feel sorry for kids coming out of college who get drafted without having a say in where they get drafted? I don't, I'm actually happy for them and I think they are usually quite happy when they get drafted.

Also players get traded to other teams without their choice being exercised all the time. I bet wiggins was stoked to find that cleveland had the #1 pick and he would be playing for a contender and playing with and learning from lebron.
I bet he is living a happy life even though he is in Minnesota and wouldn't want anyone to feel sorry for him.


So there are two situations where it already happens that guys don't get to choice who they play for.
 
I don't think you guys are understanding. You're ok with people's rights being taken away because they make a lot of money.

Yes. They already have fewer rights and it seems fine. There's a draft. You don't get to choose who you play for. The trade-off is that you get obscene amounts of guaranteed money for 3 years.
 
The right to choose where you work, within reason. Without it, they're essentially well paid slaves we trot out for entertainment.

I don't really see it that way. For example, if I was offered a job on the stipulation that I spend months at a time working at whichever city I'm needed in, then I'd either accept it or I don't. I wouldn't consider that company's business model a violation of my basic human rights.

The difference in the NBA is that it is a partnership between two organizations. Not simply one of an employer and an employee. And one kind of model might benefit one party at the expense of the other. Regardless of what is good for the sport, we have competing interests at hand.

But I don't oppose it on an ideal.
 
I've been thinking about this, and what really bothers me about the current state of the league is the entitlement and lack of perspective on the part of star players. It really all started with LeBron. He had MJ hype before he even played a single game, but I think the pivotal moment came when the Cavs made the finals in 2007 and the Spurs duly swept them.

First, let us take a moment and acknowledge that the Cavs were far from being the second best team in the league that year. The Jazz actually had a better record than the Cavs, and I think any of the top 5 seeds in the West would've beaten the Cavs in the Finals. Not swept, mind you, but they would've beaten them. The Cavs were also lucky to have caught a very brief window of opportunity between the end of that great Pistons team and the assembling of the big 3 in Boston. There is a reason Cavs were unable to make it back to the Finals the next 3 years.

It seems crazy to look back at it now and realize that LeBron was 22. He was 22 and the indisputable leader of a team and he led them to the finals. And he had no Penny next to him, unlike Shaq when he went to the Finals at 23. Here lies the crux of my argument and what I believe is the problem. At 22, LeBron James had enough clout and enough hubris to force the Cavs into going into win-right-now mode. At 22! With at least another decade of productive play, LeBron needed to win now. Look at the moves the team made over the next 3 seasons, and they are all win-now, put-all-your-eggs-in-one-basket kind of moves.

At the 2008 trade deadline, Cleveland gutted their roster in a 3-team trade. They came out of it with Ben Wallace, Joe Smith, Wally Szczerbiak, and Delonte West. Three players ranging from very to somewhat past their prime and Delonte West. West was the only one to make any significant contribution to the Cavs, but you can see the allure of the idea of getting two former All-Stars and a former number 1 pick if you're trying as hard as you can to win. I should mention they got a pick out of this, as well, which they used to select Danny Green. They would cut him a year later.

That summer, there would be another 3-team trade, where they would actually get a decent young player in Mo Williams. That was a good move, especially since they gave up Joe Smith and Damon Jones to get him. Both were garbage at this point. Next year, the Cavs would return to form by signing a fat, over-the-hill Shaq, then trading for Antawn Jamison at the deadline. Both fit the pattern of aging former stars with little left in the tank. Win-now moves. LeBron, of course, would leave 5 months after the Jamison trade, in the now legendary Decision.

The team's draft fortunes during the time they had LeBron James were poor at best. They traded away more picks than you can count in dubious deals, so they actually had no selections in either round in both 2005 and 2007. Here's a list of players they did draft during that time:

Luke Jackson
Shannon Brown
Boobie Gibson
Ejike Ugboaja
J.J. Hickson
Christian Eyenga
Danny Green

Never mind, upon reflections, their drafting was actually an utter, steaming pile of ****. Boobie Gibson might be the best pick of the bad bunch by virtue of playing for the Cavs for 6 season. Most of these didn't give them more than one or two years of sad productivity. The point I'm trying to make is that the Cavs built in the late 00s like they were the Jazz in the 90s. Like they had two legends with a rapidly closing window of opportunity and not a young phenom in his early 20s. This was to a large degree the fault of LeBron and his camp followers, though the competence of the Cavs organization was certainly in doubt during this time.

Again, he was 22! There was a 10-15 year window for championships. And realistically, LeBron wasn't that good yet. Considering the big guns of the NBA at the time(Celtics, Cavs, Lakers, Mavs, Spurs, even the Suns), it is actually difficult to image how the Cavs could've put together any team in 2008 with LeBron as the number one option that could have possibly won the title. That's the reality of NBA, though. Players have to grow and mature and sometimes, a team has to wait a few years to catch other teams in transition. LeBron had the time. In the end, he would not win a title for another 5 years after that Finals sweep, anyway. The Cavs should've built for the long term. They should've allowed some bad contracts of washed up starts to expire, they should've targeted some quality free agents 2-3 years down the road. They should’ve actually invested time and energy into drafting and then developing players. I don’t want to get too carried away with the who-they-could-have-drafted game as hindsight is 20-20, but I should point out that they did not have to trade for Delonte West as they simply could have taken him in the 2004 draft instead of Luke Jackson.

Of course Cleveland could not build around LeBron as he would’ve liked since every year, they had to make moves to help him win now. They never had cap space, their picks were traded away, and since LeBron was good enough for at least 50-55 wins no matter what, even the picks they kept were not that high. LeBron was young enough, he could’ve waited 3-4 years for a proper team to be assembled around him. As I said, he had to wait for a title for 5 years either way. Where was the hurry? Why the impulse to win right away? What NBA superstar was drafted onto a bad team and won a title before they were 25?
Coming back to present or more recent past, Durant was 27 when he signed with the Warriors last summer. Again, just 27! Not Garnett leaving to go to Boston, not Malone and Payton going to Lakers. 27 and in his prime. He was the same age as Michael Jordan in 1990. The year he lost to the Pistons in the Conference Finals for the second straight season. The Pistons team that had could start 5 All-Stars, the oldest being 32. The Pistons team that dethroned both the Celtics and the Lakers dynasties. Like the Warriors-Thunder, the Pistons had beaten the Bulls 4-3 that year. Jordan could not leave to join the Pistons as he was not a free agent, but I am sure he would not have done it anyway. He would win 6 championships over his next 6.5 seasons. Yeah, MJ got better, but he also had to wait for the Lakers, the Celtics, and the Pistons to get old or broken up.
It was like this for any star you can think of from that era. Isiah was 28 when he won his first ring. Hakeem made the Finals at 23, but had to wait until he was 31 to win a championship. Hell, he didn’t make Conference Finals until that year again. David Robinson was 33 when he won it all. Shaq was 28. John and Karl did not make it to the Finals until they were 35 and 34. Ewing was 31. Barkley was 30. Drexler was 29 when he made the Finals and 32 when he won a ring. Dominique never even made the Finals, and the closest he came to was when he was 28.

Where is the hurry for modern players? The average career did not last longer 25-30 years ago than it does now. Why do they all need to win titles before they’re old enough to be elected to Congress?
 
All employment is conditional, calling an NBA player a slave is ****ing ridiculous. Calling a kid working in Bangladesh for a dollar a day a virtual slave is perhaps more fitting. Lets not get carried away, if somebody doesn't like playing in the NBA they can probably get a job playing basketball in almost any other city in the world. The only difference will be what they're paid. I get paid relatively well for my work, I enjoy some of the best pay and conditions in my industry but it comes with certain obligations on my part, I know full well that if i wanted to leave i would almost certainly move to a job in my industry that pays a lot less. Being an adult means making choices.

This is so stupid. They have a talent that allows a lot of people (inside and outside of the NBA) to make a lot of money.

You can't ask someone to choose between being forced where to work for millions vs working for $50,000.

That's stupid.

Why do you get to choose where you work when you are completely replaceable but a guy who has a talent that 99.9% of the world doesn't have doesn't get to choose where they work?

It's ridiculous.

Your argument is a poor person's argument.
 
Having rules you don't like is far different than forcing a player to live in a certain place. If you can't comprehend that, then wow.

Interesting how people who make lots of money can have different rules than other people and you're ok with it in this regard.

My god. I can't believe I agree with this dude.
 
You are silly.
99% of the world's population would take the deal of being forced to live in the nicest houses in the nicest parts of the nicest cities in America and make millions of dollars.
Ya, I'm not going to feel sorry for someone in that situation. What would be so bad about it?

That's irrelevant. 99% of the population can't do what they do.
 
I don't think you guys are understanding. You're ok with people's rights being taken away because they make a lot of money. That's what this boils down to. Sure they'd still have a nice lifestyle, which they already have, they'd just have less rights than they already do. It's the principal of the idea that matters.

Yup.
 
Yes. They already have fewer rights and it seems fine. There's a draft. You don't get to choose who you play for. The trade-off is that you get obscene amounts of guaranteed money for 3 years.

Huh? Not all players get "obscene amounts" of money. LeBron James has been grossly underpaid his whole career.
 
That's irrelevant. 99% of the population can't do what they do.
It's relevant to whether I would feel sorry for them or not.

If I could i would switch places with them in a heartbeat and feel like the luckiest person on the planet so I don't feel sorry them. Pretty simple really.

Maybe a person in a better situation than nba basketball players would feel sorry for them. That's like less than 1% of the population though.
 
My nephew who is colonel in the Air Force, if he wants to keep his job, has to go work in D.C for the next 4 years after being assigned to San Antonio for the last three years. Are his rights being taken away?
 
My nephew who is colonel in the Air Force, if he wants to keep his job, has to go work in D.C for the next 4 years after being assigned to San Antonio for the last three years. Are his rights being taken away?

The players got rights man, it's called the CBA. If you take away the freedom of player movement, then you are taking away their rights.
 
The players got rights man, it's called the CBA. If you take away the freedom of player movement, then you are taking away their rights.
Obviously you would have to do it when the next contract is put together and ya they would be losing something (this happens in union negotiations sometimes. You don't always get want you want and sometimes you lose something during negotiations) but they would still have a much better job and live in a much better place than me so again, I wouldn't shed any tears for them.
 
Huh? Not all players get "obscene amounts" of money. LeBron James has been grossly underpaid his whole career.
It's all based on perspective. From my perspective every one of them get paid obscene amounts of money to play basketball.
I will always wish I were playing nba basketball. Never gonna cry for them.
 
Top