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Big Al on Millsap

Going off of possible playoff teams in the west........ Because that is all that matters

SF's
Mavericks: Caron Butler (Coming off injury)
Spurs: Gallinari or Chandler
Warriors: Dorrell Wright
Rockets: Budinger
Clippers: Al-Farouq Aminu
Lakers: Metta World Peace
Grizzlies: Gay
Wolves: Beasley & Derick Williams
Hornets: Ariza
Thunder: Durant
Suns: Childress & Grant Hill
Blazers: Wallace & Batum
Kings: Salmons
 
There are superstars in the NBA at EVERY position who give most any defender fits. The Jazz need to assemble the best team they can, and versatility is a huge weapon. The more positions a player can man, the more valuable he becomes in a team concept. I don't expect Millsap to become a lockdown defender or an offensive go-to guy, but he is already a good rebounder, and by adding a reliable outside shot to his resume, could become an even bigger thorn in the side of any opponent.
 
NotDeadYet said:
There are superstars in the NBA at EVERY position who give most any defender fits. The Jazz need to assemble the best team they can, and versatility is a huge weapon. The more positions a player can man, the more valuable he becomes in a team concept. I don't expect Millsap to become a lockdown defender or an offensive go-to guy, but he is already a good rebounder, and by adding a reliable outside shot to his resume, could become an even bigger thorn in the side of any opponent.
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Excellent post. I like the versaitility the Jazz will have at C/PF with Favors, Kanter, Jefferson, Memo and Millsap. I've been thinking Utah needs more of a true SF, but Hayward could very well be growing into that position. If Millsap can slide over and match up against the bigger. more physical SF's, that may be exactly what the Jazz need. And if Utah has to go small, Corbin can send out some combination of Alec, Gordon and CJ. I hope Watson comes back for one more year. Jazz need to find a long-term solution at PG and then it will be fun to watch this team develop.
 
dalamon said:
Exactly. Im just thinking how this is gonna work three-five years from now. Will Sap still be on this team? where does that leave Burks and Hayward? I guess it all depends on how successful of a SF he becomes. His work ethic is utterly admirable though. Most players would much rather request a trade and keep their strengths intact than trying to switch a position several years into the NBA. I still think his optimal position in the future is a sixth man, with Harris/whoever we draft, Burks, Haywad, Favors, then either Jefferson or Kanter depending on who pans out better. I really think he could deliver Bill Walton type effectiveness. But who knows what will happen
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With 96 mins at the big positions and at the wings, Jazz could have a perfect rotation with the players they have. I'm looking towards next year and assuming neither Memo nor CJ are still on the Jazz.

C/PF: Jefferson 35, Favors 35, Kanter 26. Up or down for each depending on foul trouble, matchups and how quickly Kanter develops. Possibly re-sign Memo if Enes doesn't look ready to play significant minuites by the end of this season, or for injury insurance since few players play all 82 games.

SF: Millsap 30, Hayward 18.
SG: Hayward 15, Burks 33.
That's long-term. This season, Corbin can limit Hayward's minutes a bit (25/per?), give 20-25 to CJ and start Burks off at 15 mins/per. Let's see how Alec plays NBA defense before we anoint him the next great SG. Remember, even Gordon The Great struggled until mid-season with his shooting and knowledge of the playbook.

What I like, and what NotDeadYet pointed out is that the Jazz have some versatility right now. If Millsap DOESN'T work out at SF, then CJ becomes more important to Utah. Hayward gets all his minutes at SF, CJ splits time between the 2 and 3 and Burks gets more PT (or Bell gets minutes). And Enes can be a total project at this point. If he takes some time to develop (which I think he will), then Millsap and Memo can pick up the minutes at the 4/5. With everyone healthy, NO, there aren't enough minutes to go around. But that's never the case. Players are always banged up, and sometimes the injuries are significant. Won't it be nice to just up the minutes of a Kanter, Memo or Burks if that happens instead of inserting a Jeffers or Elson into the lineup? The Jazz are young, but deep. There won't be much of a drop off from the starters to the subs. I really believe this team could surprise a lot of people - and sooner than most expect.
 
Cyrone Torbin said:
What can Paul Pierce do defensively that Millsap won't be able to?
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Pierce is much more fluid with the ball on his hands than millsap, i am a great fan of sap but he just sucks in SF. We will probably see it this year, because last year, the games that had no competency in the late season fooled us and made us think he can, but indeed he can't play SF at all. I would understand he get benched and Favors starts, but not that he is the starting SF in this team.
 
sepanol said:
Pierce is much more fluid with the ball on his hands than millsap, i am a great fan of sap but he just sucks in SF. We will probably see it this year, because last year, the games that had no competency in the late season fooled us and made us think he can, but indeed he can't play SF at all. I would understand he get benched and Favors starts, but not that he is the starting SF in this team.
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What part of "defensively" did you not understand?

And who gave you the crystal ball? If players can't grow, then Kanter isn't going to do a thing in the NBA.
 
NUMBERICA said:
What part of "defensively" did you not understand?

And who gave you the crystal ball? If players can't grow, then Kanter isn't going to do a thing in the NBA.
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They can grow in their position, not every player has the ability to grow in other positions, millsap is barely a starter at PF and definitely not a starter at SF
 
sepanol said:
Pierce is much more fluid with the ball on his hands than millsap, i am a great fan of sap but he just sucks in SF. We will probably see it this year, because last year, the games that had no competency in the late season fooled us and made us think he can, but indeed he can't play SF at all.
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Yours is the same errant thinking that permeated the Jazz coaching staff under Sloan's out-of-his-azz regime, when many players in crucial positions were not given enough playing time to demonstrate whether they could play a position or not.

In this case, you are writing off the potential of a veteran player (as opposed to usually a youngin' that Sloan underdeveloped) with historically huge self motivation and a history of already improving substantially in keys areas such as shooting. And although I wasn't able to easily sample how much time the Paperboy actually played SF (given that the NBA game logs appear to be disabled), 82 games pegs his PT at SF at a mere 2%.
https://www.82games.com/1011/10UTA11.HTM#bypos

Which would put his SF slate last year at--wait for it--around (2% * 82 games * 48 minutes =) 78 minutes.

He wasn't doing great (82games puts his per-48 +/- at about -5, which was six points below his PF performance), but in Millsap's case, the huge upside in the versatility of playing PM at the 3 is worth the investment if he doesn't cause the Jazz to lose a lot of games in the meantime.

Because a frontcourt with a Jefferson who actually defends, a Favors who can actually post (which also will likely improve with more on-court time), and a Millsap (or Hayward or CJ) who can hold his own at the 3 is quite formidable.

As has mentioned before, using Millsap at SF in special situations (e.g., wearing down World Metta Peace) is worth investigating anyway.
 
sepanol said:
They can grow in their position, not every player has the ability to grow in other positions, millsap is barely a starter at PF and definitely not a starter at SF
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Barely a starter?? lol.

and PS I thought Kanter's "position" was PF going into the draft, yet the Jazz are planning on playing him as a center. Weird, huh? I goes he's gonna have to have the ability to grow into another position.

And if there is anything that all of us Jazz fans should have learned over the last 5 years, its to never doubt Millsap's motivation to improve his shape into what is most suitable for its team. I myself see him as a 6th man down the road, but there is no reason why he can't hold his own at SF over the next few years, if he puts in the work.
 
InGameStrategy said:
Yours is the same errant thinking that permeated the Jazz coaching staff under Sloan's out-of-his-azz regime, when many players in crucial positions were not given enough playing time to demonstrate whether they could play a position or not.

In this case, you are writing off the potential of a veteran player (as opposed to usually a youngin' that Sloan underdeveloped) with historically huge self motivation and a history of already improving substantially in keys areas such as shooting. And although I wasn't able to easily sample how much time the Paperboy actually played SF (given that the NBA game logs appear to be disabled), 82 games pegs his PT at SF at a mere 2%.
https://www.82games.com/1011/10UTA11.HTM#bypos

Which would put his SF slate last year at--wait for it--around (2% * 82 games * 48 minutes =) 78 minutes.

He wasn't doing great (82games puts his per-48 +/- at about -5, which was six points below his PF performance), but in Millsap's case, the huge upside in the versatility of playing PM at the 3 is worth the investment if he doesn't cause the Jazz to lose a lot of games in the meantime.

Because a frontcourt with a Jefferson who actually defends, a Favors who can actually post (which also will likely improve with more on-court time), and a Millsap (or Hayward or CJ) who can hold his own at the 3 is quite formidable.

As has mentioned before, using Millsap at SF in special situations (e.g., wearing down World Metta Peace) is worth investigating anyway.
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I didn't claim every player should stuck to their position and guard the players in their position, like Korver did Kobe, i said not everyone can grow in different positions, so it is not same thinking at all.

I have seen Millsap play in that position, i don't need to be a magician to see that he can't play there. No need for investigation, what makes Millsap so good is his plays close to the rim, his finishes, his offensive rebounding and else, his plays far from rim is just the side part of his game, not the main part. In SF he will be forced to play things he doesn't mainly do well but he does ok time to time. Like launching some 3 when he is empty, but he can't do this consistently.

Btw, a front court with Jefferson who actually defends part doesn't seem realistic to me. If Favors will start, Millsap can come off the bench and take some mins from them. But its nonsense to start him at SF because we are overloaded in big men rotation. Then lets play Memo at 2, since he won't find playing time behind them.

If Kirilenko returns, we won't find time for him neither so lets play him 1. He did like for 5-6 mins in some game, i remember.
A line up with AK-Memo-Millsap-Favors-Jefferson would be sooo good, no one can beat us, no one can grab rebounds.
 
dalamon said:
Barely a starter?? lol.

and PS I thought Kanter's "position" was PF going into the draft, yet the Jazz are planning on playing him as a center. Weird, huh? I goes he's gonna have to have the ability to grow into another position.

And if there is anything that all of us Jazz fans should have learned over the last 5 years, its to never doubt Millsap's motivation to improve his shape into what is most suitable for its team. I myself see him as a 6th man down the road, but there is no reason why he can't hold his own at SF over the next few years, if he puts in the work.
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I see him as a 6th man too thats why i told he is a barely starter in PF. Maybe i use the wrong wording there. It is different to hold his own and be actually effective. If we are gonna play sap as 3, lets better trade him, that doesn't make sense. Because he is not gonna be able to use any of his skills in that position at all.

Everyone called me Big Al hater and Kanter homer when i was talking about trading him, but apparently it will make everyones duties much more clear.
 
According to the OP link, Millsap is already working on his 3-point shot this off-season. I'm sure "can't" is Millsap's favorite word; wouldn't bet against him...:D
 
I expect Millsap to log significant minutes at both SF and PF. If Favors can handle a starting role, Millsap would likely be his primary b/u. Whether Millsap or CJ start at SF doesn't matter to me. Evans and Hayward will likely play some SF too. Now if AK returns, it'll get interesting...
 
I don't think Sap's role is going to change until external forces change it -- Favors needing minutes, wing suckitude. But I'm all in favor of Sap's conversion if he can do it. My concerns:

Offense -- I have a hard time believing Sap is going to be an effective shooter off running screens. He also can't drive and thus the P&R is a dead issue with him. The plusses are his ability to post. But we've never posted a 3. If Sap is going to play the 3, Ty has to find a way to use his physicality. The one Pierce comparison that is totally genuine is Sap has a very underrated step back jumper. Pierce kills with this. Sap could, too.

Defense -- It's all about defending drivers. If I'm the opposing coach, I'm driving on Sap relentlessly. As another problem, Sap's not quick. So his rotations out to the perimeter could be ugly. The plusses are I like Sap crashing the boards at the position. But he's going to lose a lot of rebounding opportunities.
 
billyshelby said:
I don't think Sap's role is going to change until external forces change it -- Favors needing minutes, wing suckitude. But I'm all in favor of Sap's conversion if he can do it. My concerns:

Offense -- I have a hard time believing Sap is going to be an effective shooter off running screens. He also can't drive and thus the P&R is a dead issue with him. The plusses are his ability to post. But we've never posted a 3. If Sap is going to play the 3, Ty has to find a way to use his physicality. The one Pierce comparison that is totally genuine is Sap has a very underrated step back jumper. Pierce kills with this. Sap could, too.

Defense -- It's all about defending drivers. If I'm the opposing coach, I'm driving on Sap relentlessly. As another problem, Sap's not quick. So his rotations out to the perimeter could be ugly. The plusses are I like Sap crashing the boards at the position. But he's going to lose a lot of rebounding opportunities.
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The thing is, at that position, millsap won't be able to do half of the things he do very well in 4. And Pierce comparison doesn't make sense, Pierce is a very fluid player, he has very good dribbling ball handling skills, millsap doesn't at all. Just because their bodies are alike doesn't make their game similar.

I believe, in current situation he will get some mins at 3, he may even start at 3 time to time, but i think it will be a failing experiment.
 
sepanol said:
The thing is, at that position, millsap won't be able to do half of the things he do very well in 4. And Pierce comparison doesn't make sense, Pierce is a very fluid player, he has very good dribbling ball handling skills, millsap doesn't at all. Just because their bodies are alike doesn't make their game similar.

I believe, in current situation he will get some mins at 3, he may even start at 3 time to time, but i think it will be a failing experiment.
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I said "the one" Pierce comparison. They both have excellent step backs. There's no question Pierce is better at everything else.
 
sepanol said:
I see him as a 6th man too thats why i told he is a barely starter in PF. Maybe i use the wrong wording there. It is different to hold his own and be actually effective. If we are gonna play sap as 3, lets better trade him, that doesn't make sense. Because he is not gonna be able to use any of his skills in that position at all.

Everyone called me Big Al hater and Kanter homer when i was talking about trading him, but apparently it will make everyones duties much more clear.
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Is ginobili barely a starter at sg, no, but he is the Spurs 6th man.
 
Thee jazz fan said:
Is ginobili barely a starter at sg, no, but he is the Spurs 6th man.
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So ? I don't understand your point, i didn't say Millsap can't be 6th man which it is the best think he can do, being the 6th man. But it would be awkward if he starts at SF like ginobili starts as pg. If Millsap is gonna be starting SF in a team, it means that team has no SF on the roster
 
Im watching Memo right now, against one of the best 3 teams in turkey, he was killing them with 3s , midrange jump shots, but he got fouled out, 2 technical fouls
 
sepanol said:
I see him as a 6th man too thats why i told he is a barely starter in PF. Maybe i use the wrong wording there. It is different to hold his own and be actually effective. If we are gonna play sap as 3, lets better trade him, that doesn't make sense. Because he is not gonna be able to use any of his skills in that position at all.

Everyone called me Big Al hater and Kanter homer when i was talking about trading him, but apparently it will make everyones duties much more clear.
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Okay, Ill bite.

How on earth will trading Big Al make everyones duties more clear? Will it improve our logjam at PF, seeing as Kanter, Favors, and Millsap all "naturally" play at that position? Wont it be "hard" of for Kanter to adopt another position, and play Center? After all, you said not every player can, Sepanol. Even if Kanter does, who will start at PF between him and Favors? The only thing that trading Big Al would affect, is the amount of playing time that KANTER and OKUR receives. Hmmm, surprise surprise. Sepanol looking out for his countrymen yet again.

As you can see, the second we got Favors was the instant Millsap's security on this team was removed. I cannot think of many players I like more in the NBA, but quite frankly, their ceilings differ. So unless, Favors plays center and Millsap starts at PF over the next few years until we see how Kanter becomes, there aren't many other possibilities for him, unless he is either traded away, or works towards becoming an SF. Or he could be a 6th man, but hey if the guy hates being benched then right on. Let him work hard to avoid it.
 
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