IMO the C's don't get to the finals without Rondo.. stick any other PG in there and I'm not sure you get there. I'm not saying the team wasn't stacked. A lot of people go around here and say Dwill is better than Paul just because of winning, so yeah it is a valuable argument. The last I read, he said Dwill was the clear front runner for best PG in the league. It'll be hard to argue against that. However, saying that Rondo doesn't deserve to be in the conversation is ludicrous.
Bill Simmons Jazz.....love?
- Thread starter BabyPeterzz
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IMO the C's don't get to the finals without Rondo.. stick any other PG in there and I'm not sure you get there. I'm not saying the team wasn't stacked. A lot of people go around here and say Dwill is better than Paul just because of winning, so yeah it is a valuable argument. The last I read, he said Dwill was the clear front runner for best PG in the league. It'll be hard to argue against that. However, saying that Rondo doesn't deserve to be in the conversation is ludicrous.
anonymous832
Member
Yeah, and you're gonna be the guy next June saying, "Yeah, I just don't think the Heat get to the Finals without Carlos Arroyo (or Mario Chalmers, or whatever)." Sorry, but no - Rondo does not deserve to be in the conversation. He's definitely a great point guard. Fourth-best in the league, IMO. But until he can A) learn how to shoot; and B) be able to consistently control the floor from night to night with the same remarkable consistency as the truly great point guards do - the way Deron does, the way Paul does, the way Nash does - he won't be in the conversation. Amusingly, you really didn't even provide a counter to the "he's playing with three future Hall of Famers" argument - you just said "winning is a valuable part of the argument." Which I won't argue with, but "winning" has to be put into context, too. Any reasonable person who watches the NBA would have to conclude that with Deron on the Celtics, yes, they still would have gotten to the Finals. I just think it's silly to argue otherwise. Just as it would be silly to argue that Rondo would have anywhere near his current level of hype if he didn't play with Paul Pierce, Kevin Garnett and Ray Allen every night - even the aging versions we see now. I'll admit that, at this point, Rondo is the Celtics' best player. Quite clearly, in fact. But we've seen Deron/Paul/Nash become significantly better players than Rondo WITHOUT the benefit of three selfless Hall of Famers facilitating everything they do.
anonymous832
Member
Do I have to explain this again? Christ. OK, pay attention this time. He did NOT have Rose higher on his list of point guards than Nash (or Deron, for that matter). That was his trade value column - he was talking about VALUE, not current level of quality. Age and salary were determining factors. I mean, do you even TRY to understand what you're discussing before you post something on a message board?
Stifle Tower
Punch Bowl Re-Filler
Wait. Two pages defending Deron after an apparent dis by Simmons claiming he's only a top-4 PG?
When is someone going to defend good ol' Jer'? He said the same thing about Sloan - that he's a top-4 coach
When is someone going to defend good ol' Jer'? He said the same thing about Sloan - that he's a top-4 coach
I was just saying, that some people on this board have said in the past that "deron is better because of a better win percentage." He had a better line up than Paul, no one will argue that. Yes, he has 3 future HOFs on the team, yeah the team is stacked not only in great veteran talent but also younger role player guys, theres a reason the Celtics are so good and they won a title. But saying that Rondo isn't a factor in that is crazy. Yeah you stick any of the top PGs in the NBA on that Celtics team and they go to the finals, but if you stick Devin Harris on that team? I'm not so sure. Raymond Felton, who is a decent PG, I don't think you get to the finals with that team.
JJ Rage
Active Member
anonymous832
Member
And what does that have to do with anything?
Nobody said Devin Harris was better than Rondo. Nobody said Raymond Felton was better than Rondo. I said Rondo isn't in the conversation for best PG in the league - because Deron, Paul and Nash are all clearly better, IMO. Personally, I'd rank him fourth behind those three. With Westbrook, Billups and Rose (unless I'm forgetting someone) behind him.
Simmons has had a major burr up his arse for years about the jazz. I don't know where it came from, but it's obvious. He hated Stock and Malone so much and still enjoys dissing them. Just read his basketball book. It's a good read, but his bias takes away a lot of his cred. he even admits that he has biases and then tries to point out where he is being unbiased.
Simmons is a fan who gets to write for ESPN. That's really all he is.
Simmons is a fan who gets to write for ESPN. That's really all he is.
Inn Dawn
Well-Known Member
Hey it's craig2112 from the ESPN boards c. early 2000s.
I think he gives pretty much everyone a fair shake. Now that he mentioned some of that stuff, there is no reason why Jordan shouldn't have won all the MVP awards from 88 to 98. Seriously, Jordan was unreal those years. I didn't think he showed any real biased towards any players or teams he judged them fairly. He really judges the Jazz fairly too. It's fun to make fun of the Jazz because they usually draft "White and Slow" But he has always praised Sloan for his coaching, he even praises Stockton all the time, especially when comparing players.
I thought his book accurately rated Malone and Stockton, although I think Stockton should have been just a few spots higher, but he made some valid arguments about his position.
