Bold Trade Idea

[Ron Mexico]

What games do you watch? Millsap and LeBron flat out battle. LBJ is better, but he's better than anybody. Millsap holds his own.

Atlanta might make the playoffs but they wouldn't win a series with Teague being the only guy who can create baskets. See, that's the point. This is a basketball move not some "I've got a hard on for a Jazz player and think he's better than everybody else because he's younger" logic.

You dont think Favors on Atlanta could have beat Boston? You dont think Favors could have replaced Millsaps offense in that series? Millsap shot 15/41 in the wins in that series. Pretty sure Favors could have averaged more than 11 points on 36%shooting. Pretty sure Favors would have been more help than Millsap in that series and Atlanta still wins. Favors is a better defender than Millsap. Favors is a >>>>>>>>>> defender than Millsap was in his last season with the Jazz when he stopped playing defense and quit on the team on that end of the court. He was just out to get some stats to help him in the off-season. That is not the type of player an organization wants back. I loved Millsap here but he wanted out and he quit on the team.

As far as toe to toe with Lebron goes. Lebron averaged 25 points on 51% shooting, 9 boards, 8 assists and 3 steals per game that series. His team swept the Hawks. Millsap averaged 17 points on a rough 39 percent shooting, 10 boards (best stat he had) and 3 assists. That is decent numbers (not great) and not in the same conversion of what Lebron did in that series. If you swap Millsap and Lebron then the Hawks would have swept the Cavs. The only reason that game 1 and 4 were close is not because of Millsap it is because Dennis stepped up and was the best player on his team those games. The other two were blowups.

Millsap is a good player. Yes he is an all-star player. He is not an all-star player in the West and never would have been if he didnt go to the East. He is probably a little better offensively and can create for himself better than Favors but Favors holds his own in the block better and is a great pick and roll player despite not having a PG to help him with that last year. Favors is the better defender and rebounder. He has more length and athleticism. He is also way younger. Millsap is not getting better Favors is. It is safe to assume that Millsap will be the same or worse next year and Favors will be better than last year. Millsap played hard against the Cavs but didnt go toe to toe, maybe you dont know what that means. I might buy that argument for someone from Toronto since they put up a fight against the Cavs and didnt get steam rolled like the Hawks did.

 

[LoPo]

I loved Millsap here but he wanted out and he quit on the team.

Stop that garbage. I've never seen that guy quit. You're just baiting now.

Of course LeBron outplayed Millsap, but Millsap held his own against him two years ago. This year, he didn't play as well admittedly. That Cavs team shut everybody down. Millsap still does well in his matchup head to head in late game possessions. Overall throughout the game, LBJ is going to outstat and beat almost everyone in a one v one. I've only seen a few over time who have gone toe to toe and did pretty well - Kawhi in one series. Iggy last year. Draymond this year. Millsap two years ago. It's a small list....

 

[Ron Mexico]

Stop that garbage. I've never seen that guy quit. You're just baiting now.

Of course LeBron outplayed Millsap, but Millsap held his own against him two years ago. This year, he didn't play as well admittedly.

A. I am guessing you are too young (or at least pretending to be) to remember his last year with the Jazz. Or you were not a Jazz fan back then. He played Kanter/Boozer level defense his final year with the Jazz. I am guess you dont remember Korver admitting he didnt take shots to preserve his record either? He cost us a 2 or 3 seed that year. The last two games of the year when he had his 3 point record he only shot 1 3 point basket in 40 minutes of play in those 2 games. You want that guy back? You think the Organization wants a guy like that back who cares more about his 3 point record than winning and our playoff seed?

B. So you admit he didnt do that great this year so now you are changing the argument to 2 years ago? Yes back in Millsaps prime 2 years ago he was better, I dont give 2 ****s about 2 years ago for a player on my team next year. Millsap is not getting better he is on the downhill. Favors is on the up, very consistently getting better. Your argument is about next year Millsap being better not 2 years ago.

 

[LoPo]

Bronc, buddy, I've been a fan since before the Jazz made a finals. I've seen us overpay good but not great talent over and over and over. Favors is AK and we're going to overpay him just the same. He's a good player, but he's not going to win a title for us. We already have a rim protector and there is almost no point to have 2 max rim protector when the game is run by guards and wings.

We almost always screw up when it comes to personnel. We overpay Ostertag instead of reach for the stars for a wing upgrade on Russell (who would have been a fantastic 6th man). We gave AK the max contract that held us back in the Deron, Okur, Boozer days. We let Wes Matthews go when we didn't want to overpay him because we valued Raja almost the same. We should have traded Boozer at his peak because it was obvious that Millsap was just as good or better soon. We let Carroll walk. We should have traded Al Jefferson before he walked.

The only perfectly timed transaction was trading Deron when we did, but we ruined that through drafting Burke, Burks over Kawhi, drafting Kanter, etc. I have faith in Lindsey, but we are probably doomed to repeat our prior history by maxing out Hayward and extending Favors to too much soon. Those contracts will make us sacrifice much needed wing depth. Yeah, we might make a West Finals in the next few years just like the Deron days, but we won't have the pieces necessary to contend because Favors and Gobert on near max deals will be players sitting on the bench against small lineups. And our small lineups won't be good or deep enough.

I've been around. I've been there through thick and thin. I like this trade because we need character and we need experience. Korver and Millsap will fill our lockerroom with those things along with Hill. We need the maturity balance. Nobody has been around to knock sense into "red carpet" guys like Favors and Hayward who really haven't had to work for their spots and there is nobody pushing them towards greatness. So yeah, this trade mortgages the future a little bit, but some of us "older" Jazz fans are ready for a present. Millsap and Korver in for Favors makes us a true darkhorse the next two years. Teams would fear us.

 

[Ron Mexico]

I like this trade because we need character and we need experience. So yeah, this trade mortgages the future a little bit, but some of us "older" Jazz fans are ready for a present. Millsap and Korver in for Favors makes us a true darkhorse the next two years. Teams would fear us.

There ya go. I think this makes us worse next year and much, much worse every year after that. 0% chance Jazz trade anything of significance to get those two players back. Even if we did this trade we are in no way a darkhorse and it give us no chance at competing for a title.

But to each his own. Personally I didnt like the trade and didnt find any compelling argument to change my mind and a lot of compelling arguments and facts to prove what I thought by lots of others in here and 0 attempt to address or refute them.

I do support this thread getting really long though! Its been entertaining.

 

[gregbroncs]

He is a good asset. He's a good player. He's not great but his good. He's not Millsap and most importantly, he is not a good fit next to Gobert. He's just not. There is no way to argue it. Neither guy spreads the floor. Neither guy has a dominant post game.

We are contenders this year if we switched Favors with Millsap.

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Favors is better than Millsap. He's better on defense by a mile. He's not quite as good offensively as Millsap. But Millsap is only an All-Star because he plays in the east, Put Favors in the East as he's an All-star as well. Switch Favors for Millsap this year we are worse not better.

 

[stitches]

You realize Millsap is free agent next year, right? And you realize he will be 32?

So trade our stud PF who hasn't even reached his prime yet for:
- 1 year of Millsap after which he leaves
or
- 1 year of Millsap after which you have to overpay him to stay in his 33-37 year old stage? Are you sure you've thought this through?

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

Millsap is an all-star..... In the Eastern Conference.

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[LoPo]

Millsap is only on the NBA 2nd Team Defense just because he's in the east. Favors wasn't on there because he's in the west.

This is getting ridiculous. Favors is not the defender Millsap is. Some of you guys...

Defending a wing off the pnr - Millsap
Steals - Millsap
Rebounds - push
Blocks - push
Scoring - Millsap
Height - Favors
Age - Favors

I guess Favors is better lol.

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[LoPo]

You guys bash the east, but do you realize Atlanta was +6 in terms of wins against the East and West this year? In other words, they were 18-12 against the west and only 29-23 vs the East.

We were 24-28 vs the West this year. Badass Favors and all. The whole east west thing needs perspective.

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[Ron Mexico]

Defending a wing off the pnr - Millsap but close
Steals - Millsap
Rebounds - Favors
Blocks/rim protection - Favors
Scoring - Millsap but close
3 pt scoring Millsap
Inside scoring - Favors
Post up scoring - Favors
Mid to close Jump shots - Favors
Height - Favors
Age - Favors
Athleticism - Favors
Playoff defense - Favors We saw how Millsap handles length in the Playoffs long enough. We saw how Favors handle Duncan years ago in the playoffs and he has improved a lot since then.

I guess Favors is better.

Cleaned that up for ya.

 

[Ron Mexico]

You guys bash the east, but do you realize Atlanta was +6 in terms of wins against the East and West this year? In other words, they were 18-12 against the west and only 29-23 vs the East.

We were 24-28 vs the West this year. Badass Favors and all. The whole east west thing needs perspective.

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What does that have to do with the lvl of talent on the all star team? You think the East has as many star players as the West? Do you think we only have this last year to judge from? Yes there was more parity this year and the lower East teams were better than the lower west teams. The top teams in the West are much higher level than the East. Outside of Cleveland there were 0 threats from the east. Clippers, Ws, OKC and Thunder were all better than anyone East except Cleveland.