Agreed, which is why gambling w/ Chandler (1 yr remaining) is a better option because he's more tradable than those 'decent' players.
Boozer KFAN rumor
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Agreed, which is why gambling w/ Chandler (1 yr remaining) is a better option because he's more tradable than those 'decent' players.
I think there is a something to be gained by letting Boozer just walk... How did we get Boozer in the first place? As we know, there are three acquisition asset tools:
1. Draft
2. Trades (need tradeable players/things)
3. Cap Space (free agents)
It is not for nothing to let a player go, becuase you are getting some opportunity in cap space to do this. I'm not advocating that this is always/never a good idea, but it is a reality with Boozer. Boozer was an experiment that did not work. Getting chandler is a resonable replacement - to get something back for Boozer. And i think it is reasonable since he is not a long term contract (thus affording cap space in return for Boozer next year, coinciding with cap space for AK) But in this case renting chandler, with the option to buy, is a plan that you'd pay lux tax this year for the rental. So ultimately, I wouldn't do it. I'd pay the lux tax this year to get a player that would benefit for years to come. I don't think Chandler is physically capable of a "years to come" investment.
billyshelby
Well-Known Member
I got these questions answered in Hollinger's chat today. Here's the basic take:
1. Hollinger was wrong about combining the TPE. Can't be done.
2. Booze basically becomes Base Year in a new deal (not guaranteed, but likely)
3. Due to the fine print in the CBA BYC rules, he doesn't have a trade value of half (or roughly 8). It would be approximately 12 million, or his current salary.
Thus, a straight, 2 team S&T with Orlando requires the Jazz to take back approximately 11 million in salary. They would then need to get a 3rd team to eat a contract if they only wanted 2 or 1 guy. For example, they could do an S&T with Orlando to get Gortat and Bass, but would then find a team who wanted Bass and was willing to give up the Cap Space. Presumably, the Jazz and/or the Magic could sweeten the offer to the 3rd team with 2nd round picks, cash, etc. There are countless permutations of this. Alternatively, the Jazz could decide there is 11 million dollars in contracts they want and just do the deal.
Edgewriter
Well-Known Member
The problem with premature speculation is that it often ends with a pregnant pause . . .
Gyp Rosetti
Banned
Interesting. Thanks. I gotta think the Nets, Wizards, and Knicks could all end up possibilities as a third team given the fact that they may have substanial cap room even after the big named guys are signed.
billyshelby
Well-Known Member
Another possibility, meant as a hypothetical and not likely, would be to deal with Dallas. They get Booze for Dampier straight up, Dampier is cut before camp (his contract isn't guaranteed), and then the Mavs allow us to take Beaubois with one of our TPE's (or it might work mathematically in the same deal.) Working an S&T with a Cap Space team is preferable, but it's interesting how our TPE's might actually wind up having some use. Even with the Mavs, an alternative would be getting them to agree to a sign and trade with Haywood. I don't see Haywood agreeing, but we could actually absorb Haywood under the Harp TPE if he's the guy we really wanted. In another very similar financial deal, we could probably get Beasley for Booze. I really think the Jazz have to start considering that. Even with his problems, Beasley is the best asset we could acquire. As long as his head checks out, maybe getting him into a professional environment without all the distractions would turn him around.
Jazz4ever
Well-Known Member
An Orlando agent has already shot down that deal no point in talking about it. Its looking like a S&T won't happen, Amare has reportedly agreed to a regular 5 year max offer from the Knicks, leaving Phoneix with nothing but an aging Nash and a clown haired center. If Amare doesn't get 6 years Boozer probably won't either.
This trade may be dead, but here's the BYC ruling with precise numbers.
Boozer made $12.657M last year, so if a S&T contract gives him more than a 20% raise ($15.189M salary or higher), he becomes base year.
In that case the Jazz would count Boozer at his old salary in the trade ($12.657M) and could take back somewhere between $10.046M and $15.922M). The other team would take on Boozer at his new salary ($15.189M) and could take back somewhere between $12.071M and $19.086M.
The "sweet spot" would be between the other team's low end of $12.071M and the Jazz' high end of $15.922M. If they landed there, no additional players or third teams would be needed, despite the BYC considerations.
Boozer made $12.657M last year, so if a S&T contract gives him more than a 20% raise ($15.189M salary or higher), he becomes base year.
In that case the Jazz would count Boozer at his old salary in the trade ($12.657M) and could take back somewhere between $10.046M and $15.922M). The other team would take on Boozer at his new salary ($15.189M) and could take back somewhere between $12.071M and $19.086M.
The "sweet spot" would be between the other team's low end of $12.071M and the Jazz' high end of $15.922M. If they landed there, no additional players or third teams would be needed, despite the BYC considerations.
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billyshelby
Well-Known Member
Amare can't get 6 without an S&T. The Knicks don't have anything to offer Phoenix, and Phoenix has already been spending in free agency. They likely aren't very inclined to help Amare get richer. As for the Orlando rumor being 'shot down,' an agent is a highly unreliable source for that. Most likely, Orlando is still clinging to dreams of obtaining CP3 or perhaps an S&T for one of the other premiere bigs. They'll come happily back to Boozer negotiations once the options shrink.
NAOS
Well-Known Member
beat me to it. Well said.
Also, thanks for clearing up the TPE confusion earlier.
EDIT:
also, options only need to shrink by one more player in order for Boozer to be on the hot seat: Bosh. It seems that Bosh is going to wait for LeBron, so I'm guessing we get to stew about things for another week, plus or minus.
billyshelby
Well-Known Member
Kenwood, you're losing me a little bit here. If Boozer becomes Base Year, it seems the only figure that matters is his Base Year Trade Figure. That number is his salary--12.5ish. So in that scenario, we should be able to deal with Orlando 'down' to 9.5ish. Thus, we could take back that little in salary while they get Booze. As long as we get to that figure with two players we want, the deal works. But it sounds like there is something I'm missing.
theNBAnerd
Well-Known Member
pinch-hitting for my brother here. if he becomes BYC (starting salary of 15.189M or higher), then his BYC figure is what matters TO THE JAZZ... but as kenwood pointed out, the other team (orlando in this case) still has to do the math on their end based on his ACTUAL starting salary.
but this is not as big an obstacle with higher salary players because of the 125% + 100K window. it's a bigger deal when, say, a minimum salary guy sign for 5M. in that case, team A has to count him at 2.5M and can take back a maximum of 3.225M, but team B has to count him at the full 5M and must send away a minimum of 3.92M. there is no overlap in the range the two teams use to calculate, so they either need an under-the-cap team to broker a 3-way deal, or they need to include other players to bring the two ranges closer.
in boozer's case, there IS an overlap. even if boozer became a BYC, the jazz could still take back as much as 15.92M. and if the other team was sending us 15.92M, they could afford to give boozer a salary up to the max just using the 125% +100K rule. got it?
SHORT version - BYC status won't REALLY matter for boozer, but it matters immensely for players getting a huge raise because they only count on their previous team's end of the trade for 50% of their new salary.