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Boozer thinks Rose better than D-Will

Just saw that David got mad at Chuck and prepared his geeky stats. Fun and informative read. https://www.nba.com/jazz/features/locked_on_jazz.html


Deron Williams or Derrick Rose -Barkley is full of hot air
January 19th, 2011

Is Derrick Rose better than Deron Williams? According to TNT’s Charles Barkley “I love Deron Williams, he’s been the best point guard in the NBA, but you have to move him down to No. 2. Derrick Rose is the new best point guard in the NBA.”

My initial reaction to Barkley’s comment is not so fast. Deron has won 4 playoff series in his career, unequalled by any of the young point guards other than Rajon Rondo. What separates Deron for me is ability to play off the ball as well as his ability to lock down defensively on bigger players. Last year, he guarded Brandon Roy for an entire overtime and this year it was Rip Hamilton.

All of these young guards, Rose, Westbrook, Rondo, Paul, Williams, etc are terrific and each time you see one you can’t believe that any is better. However, if you get your immediate emotions out of the debate and delve into the facts Deron is still the superior player.

Deron Williams is more efficient, better defensively and untouched in the clutch compared to Derrick Rose.

D-Will........TS%: 0.60..........EFG%: 0.52..........Cringe/Grin: 144.04..........LHM: 0.403..........Locke O: 31.75..........Active: 673.32..........Jack%: 2.50..........Poss: 21.71
D-Rose......TS%: 0.54..........EFG%: 0.49..........Cringe/Grin: 35.53...........LHM: 0.361..........Locke O: 16.42..........Active: 566.28..........Jack%: 1.89..........Poss: 26.20

Deron’s superiority should begin to jump out here. Deron shots the ball much better than Derrick Rose. He is more efficient. He uses far less possessions than Rose does. The Jack percentage is the amount of times it takes on the floor before a player uses a possession. Rose is at 1.89 (about 1 minute and 53 seconds) one of the highest rates in the NBA, whereas Deron uses a possession once every 2 and half minutes.

D-Will........Poss: 21.71..........2%: 47.5..........3%: 22.4..........FT%: 14.8..........TO%: 15.3..........SO: 19.4..........Pts/SO: 1.20..........Pts/FGA: 1.46
D-Rose......Poss: 26.20..........2%: 60.4..........3%: 16.2..........FT%: 10.1..........TO%: 13.3..........SO: 24.0..........Pts/SO: 1.09..........Pts/FGA: 1.23

Simply, Rose scores more because he uses more possessions. Importantly, he uses those possessions less well than Deron. As the chart shows, Deron goes to the free throw line more often than Rose. Deron goes to the free throw line almost 15% of his possessions and Rose goes just 10%.

Rose is a high volume scorer not an efficient scorer. He goes to the line rarely and only recently has started to use the three as a weapon.. Rose has changed his game this year shooting 4.3 three’s per game up from just 1 a game in his first two years. At 38% this is a strong change for the positive in his game.

Defensively, neither of these players has an impact on the steal nor blocked shots. Rose is a better rebounder at 10.9% rebounding rate on the defensive end to Deron’s 9.6 and overall 7.2 rebounding rate to Deron’s 6.0.

On the ball defense Deron is dramatically better than Rose. Deron’s ability to guard big twos as well as 1 is becoming one of his defining features.

In three head to head match-ups both are averaging 22.7 points a game, but Deron is shooting 64%. In their last meeting Deron had 28 points, 17 assists and 1 turnover in a Jazz win. In the two games last year, Deron shot 20 of 26 from the field against Rose and the Bulls.

Finally, Deron’s clutch game is the separator between him and Rose. In clutch situations this year (final 5 mins and game within 6) Deron is shooting 50% from the field (19-38), he has hit 50% of his three’s and hit on 18 of 21 free throws.

Rose has not been in the same ballpark. Rose is hitting on just 39% of his shots in the same circumstances (29-74) and just 3 of 10 from three.

Most striking is the assist to turnover difference in the clutch. Deron has 27 assists and 6 turnovers in contrast to Rose 20 assists and 14 turnovers.

We are discussing point guards not scoring guards, correct. Case closed.
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Rose is a better scorer and better athlete than John Stockton was too.
 
memo is money said:
Boozer is a douche. That's what I know for sure.
Deron is the best young PG right now in the NBA period. Does he have any weakness? He has a post-up game that no other PG has. His game is balanced and he knows the game, he knows how to balance the scoring of the team and how to make others better. I think, if the Jazz can figure out what keeps them from consistently playing efficient Jazz basketball, you will see even a better Deron. He can take over games and his offensive repertoire is much wide and deeper than any other PG. Westbrook is the 2nd best PG in my opinion. Rose is 3rd and I'm not sold on on his basic PG skills. He is much of a scorer to me. Rondo is inconsistent and still is unreliable when it matters most.
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Agreed.

1. Deron
2. Westbrook
3. Rose
4. Paul
5. Nash/Rondo

Rose scores more than Deron, but uses way more possessions to do so. He is not nearly as efficient as Deron is. Also, crunch time situations, when double teams come and lanes are closed off, and Derrick Rose can't waltz through the lane for his patented reverse layup, does anyone in their right mind want Drose taking a jumper over Deron? Get serious.

And who cares what Bozzer thinks. I'm glad Carlos is such a big fan of Drose as he watches him play sitting on the bench in his 3 piece suit, chewing his gum like an idiot.
 
On Rose: What memo said.

Rondo is in the discussion because he's averaging 13.4 assists per game and his shooting percentage is higher than Deron's (by a lot, actually). He just doesn't shoot as often, not unlike another point guard we all know and love. I don't know why his free throw percentage is so terrible, though.
 
Deron Williams or Derrick Rose -Barkley is full of hot air
January 19th, 2011

Is Derrick Rose better than Deron Williams? According to TNT’s Charles Barkley “I love Deron Williams, he’s been the best point guard in the NBA, but you have to move him down to No. 2. Derrick Rose is the new best point guard in the NBA.”

My initial reaction to Barkley’s comment is not so fast. Deron has won 4 playoff series in his career, unequalled by any of the young point guards other than Rajon Rondo. What separates Deron for me is ability to play off the ball as well as his ability to lock down defensively on bigger players. Last year, he guarded Brandon Roy for an entire overtime and this year it was Rip Hamilton.

All of these young guards, Rose, Westbrook, Rondo, Paul, Williams, etc are terrific and each time you see one you can’t believe that any is better. However, if you get your immediate emotions out of the debate and delve into the facts Deron is still the superior player.

Deron Williams is more efficient, better defensively and untouched in the clutch compared to Derrick Rose.

D-Will........TS%: 0.60..........EFG%: 0.52..........Cringe/Grin: 144.04..........LHM: 0.403..........Locke O: 31.75..........Active: 673.32..........Jack%: 2.50..........Poss: 21.71
D-Rose......TS%: 0.54..........EFG%: 0.49..........Cringe/Grin: 35.53...........LHM: 0.361..........Locke O: 16.42..........Active: 566.28..........Jack%: 1.89..........Poss: 26.20

Deron’s superiority should begin to jump out here. Deron shots the ball much better than Derrick Rose. He is more efficient. He uses far less possessions than Rose does. The Jack percentage is the amount of times it takes on the floor before a player uses a possession. Rose is at 1.89 (about 1 minute and 53 seconds) one of the highest rates in the NBA, whereas Deron uses a possession once every 2 and half minutes.

D-Will........Poss: 21.71..........2%: 47.5..........3%: 22.4..........FT%: 14.8..........TO%: 15.3..........SO: 19.4..........Pts/SO: 1.20..........Pts/FGA: 1.46
D-Rose......Poss: 26.20..........2%: 60.4..........3%: 16.2..........FT%: 10.1..........TO%: 13.3..........SO: 24.0..........Pts/SO: 1.09..........Pts/FGA: 1.23

Simply, Rose scores more because he uses more possessions. Importantly, he uses those possessions less well than Deron. As the chart shows, Deron goes to the free throw line more often than Rose. Deron goes to the free throw line almost 15% of his possessions and Rose goes just 10%.

Rose is a high volume scorer not an efficient scorer. He goes to the line rarely and only recently has started to use the three as a weapon.. Rose has changed his game this year shooting 4.3 three’s per game up from just 1 a game in his first two years. At 38% this is a strong change for the positive in his game.

Defensively, neither of these players has an impact on the steal nor blocked shots. Rose is a better rebounder at 10.9% rebounding rate on the defensive end to Deron’s 9.6 and overall 7.2 rebounding rate to Deron’s 6.0.

On the ball defense Deron is dramatically better than Rose. Deron’s ability to guard big twos as well as 1 is becoming one of his defining features.

In three head to head match-ups both are averaging 22.7 points a game, but Deron is shooting 64%. In their last meeting Deron had 28 points, 17 assists and 1 turnover in a Jazz win. In the two games last year, Deron shot 20 of 26 from the field against Rose and the Bulls.

Finally, Deron’s clutch game is the separator between him and Rose. In clutch situations this year (final 5 mins and game within 6) Deron is shooting 50% from the field (19-38), he has hit 50% of his three’s and hit on 18 of 21 free throws.

Rose has not been in the same ballpark. Rose is hitting on just 39% of his shots in the same circumstances (29-74) and just 3 of 10 from three.

Most striking is the assist to turnover difference in the clutch. Deron has 27 assists and 6 turnovers in contrast to Rose 20 assists and 14 turnovers.

We are discussing point guards not scoring guards, correct. Case closed.
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Nice find, MIM. I would love to see Locke haters step to that.

I like Charles Barkley, but only because he's an ***. His believing that Deron isn't #1 actually sits better with me. Boozer's a ******* and anyone that thinks an athletic, inefficient chucker is better than an actual player can suck my *******.
 
fairweather said:
On Rose: What memo said.

Rondo is in the discussion because he's averaging 13.4 assists per game and his shooting percentage is higher than Deron's (by a lot, actually). He just doesn't shoot as often, not unlike another point guard we all know and love. I don't know why his free throw percentage is so terrible, though.
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Rondo has a team and I'm still not sure he's that good. He's fast, he has nice vision and passing ability, he plays hard, and he's generally crafty. But he's a terrible shooter, and that can not be understated enough. That is one of the hugest holes a player can possibly have. If he was a halfway respectable shooter Boston wins a championship in 6 last year.
 
NUMBERICA said:
Nice find, MIM. I would love to see Locke haters step to that.

I like Charles Barkley, but only because he's an ***. His believing that Deron isn't #1 actually sits better with me. Boozer's a ******* and anyone that thinks an athletic, inefficient chucker is better than an actual player can suck my *******.
Click to expand...

Can I get first suckage? Your hugest, of course.
 
NUMBERICA said:
Rondo has a team and I'm still not sure he's that good. He's fast, he has nice vision and passing ability, he plays hard, and he's generally crafty. But he's a terrible shooter, and that can not be understated enough. That is one of the hugest holes a player can possibly have. If he was a halfway respectable shooter Boston wins a championship in 6 last year.
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Exactly. Could you imagine what DWill, Paul, or Nash would do in Rondo's place?
 
Still don't see how 53% (just under 50 career) translates to "terrible shooter."
 
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