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Bully slapdown

tonstermits said:
It's called a disagreement Homestar and you resort to this: "just admit you were wrong", lolzz thats classic. For your health and well being I hope you feel you proved me wrong. I really hope Obama uses the "just admit you were wrong" line in his debates in 2012.
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Repped for the Homestar reference.
 
LogGrad98 said:
I showed this to my wife and kids last night and my wife had a take I didn't think about. First it took her 3 viewings to figure out who the bully was. In her mind, the stereotype of the bully being the big fat kid and the victim being a little scrawny kid held sway. We read the article and another that talked about the incident then she could see that it was the smaller kid perpetrating the bullying. I think this also fits other stereotypes such as only men can perpetrate sexual harrassment, etc.

Now her take was this: what if the bigger kid had killed the littler kid? In my wifes eyes the fact that the retaliation by the bigger kid had so much greater potential for permanent harm put him at fault. She accepts he had to stand up for himself, and supports that, but felt the violence used was excessive. She has a point. If it had been the littler kids head that hit that wood planter box instead of his leg he could have died or been disabled.

How, if at all, does that change your view of the whole thing?

Also how about the notion that only bigger people can bully smaller people and not vice versa?
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Maybe the little kid should have thought about what he was doing? Its like complaining about the dog biting you after you pulled its tail.
Your wife certainly brings up a very good point about how people always blame bulling on the big kid. This stereotype is very prominent among people. I experienced bulling growing up even though I was always one of the bigger kids my age.

I don't feel sorry for any bully. It doesn't matter what size, shape, or color they come in. The truth is bullies come from all walks of life. To stereotype who looks like a bully is part of the reason why many bullies get away with bullying. "She is too pretty and nice to be a bully" or "Why would that small kid bully a bigger kid?" is part of the problem. Bullies know that and many of them use it to their advantage.

Just look at the gang rape case (yea I know this is way above bullying but the mentality is the same) of an eleven old girl in Texas, and how the rapists families are painting their "boys" as young men who couldn't help themselves when an eleven old girl dressed too provocatively, implying that the girl deserved it. This mentality is at the heart of bullying and violence in society. The criminals/show no mercy but when they get caught they make every excuse as to why they did what they did while rarely taking responsibility for their actions. The biggest whiners are the bullies/criminals when people actually stand up to these clowns.

I spent a whole year of my life in 8th grade dreading school and living in fear because some kid decided to pick me out of a crowd and make me his personal punching bag. He shook me down for my lunch money and lunch. He knocked my books out of my hands in the hall, tripped me, pulled the chair out from under me, smacked me in the back of the head, thread to beat me to a pulp if I told etc. I put up with it for months. Finally, one day he came over to my table to take my cake from me and I picked up the piece of cake and shoved it in his face and then I went all "Ralphie" on him (see Christmas Story). I beat the crap out of the guy.
All the punishment I got from the fight was, a new piece of cake and word got around the school not to mess with me. I never had a problem in middle school again. I learned that the best way to deal with punks is to stand up and defend yourself.

It is a start that schools are actually acknowledging that a problem does exist but bullying will never go away until bullies get the message sent that their behavior is not acceptable and that there are consequences that they might not like. I don't know the law about what would have happened but all I know is I wish I had stood up for myself earlier instead of living in fear.

Unfortunately, not every kid has ability to protect themselves nor do they have the support systems at home. I have ZERO compassion for bullies even if they are getting crap at home or just going with the crowd. I don't agree with your wife that the big kid is at fault simply because he was bigger than the bully. Thinking like that makes it open season on people who are bigger than you. If you don't want to be hit then don't hit someone else. In my opinion once you start bullying you are guilty and whatever happens to the bully is his/her own fault.
 
The fact that the bully's mother is asking for an apology answers the question "Why do kids bully? Parents who think their kids can do no wrong is at the heart of the issue.
'
 
cowhide said:
The fact that the bully's mother is asking for an apology answers the question "Why do kids bully? Parents who think their kids can do no wrong is at the heart of the issue.
'
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This makes me thing of an incident that happened in the mid 90's. There was a story of a high school in Utah that was dealing with gang violence that resulted in at least a couple of deaths. The gangs were targeting kids wearing particular colors so the school more or less banned those colors and clothing types to protect kids while they dealt with the gangs (I seem to remember it being red hoodies with sports team logos). One mom sued saying her kid should be able to wear whatever he wants. I thought 2 things. First, how stupid to want your kid to wear the clothing the gangs were targeting. So stop wearing hoodies for a while to hopefully minimize the incidents while the school and police get a handle on the situation (which they did). But no, it is far more important that my kid wear his redskins hoodie than he avoid getting shot. Second, what a great message to teach your kid. Basically, it does not matter one whit why something is being done, or why some rule or law is in existence. If you don't like it, just sue and do whatever the hell you want to.
 
I'm with the mother on that stance. Not for a particular piece of clothing, but for one that's giving into terrorists. People shouldn't be banned from wearing clothing because a group of thugs are attacking people from wearing it. If the school wants to go to uniforms though fine with me.
 
DutchJazzer said:
if I'm not mistaken they both got 4 days.
let me ask you and other memebers in this discussio is fighting the same as self defense?
to me there is a difference. fighting should not be tolerated under any circumstances. but according to some definitions this was not a fight. this wa spure self defense.

and i and a lot of people firmly believe that every Hman being hell every living being has the RIGHT to defend oneself. its a Fundamental right. IMHO more fundamental then freedom of speech. it's as fundamental as the right to carry arms. but i know the world does not share my opinion.

A friend of mine his daughter got in a "fight" and got suspended. about the same situation as what happened in this video. only not as epic. but he brought the school to court and won the case. point is she still was suspended for those 3 days. but the suspension was moved from her record and got an apology from the school. Good thing the suspension was pulled form her record as i know what a couple of suspensions do on your schoolrecord
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Defending yourself is still fighting. It takes 2 people to fight. It was a physical altercation in which both parties fought with each other. One was in the right and one was the instigator. Not suspending someone for fighting sends the wrong message to the rest of the students. However like I have said I do not believe that a suspension was a severe enough penalty for the instigator of this fight. He should be expelled and/or sent to juvenile detention. His parents obviously have done nothing to teach him that he was in the wrong as they are now asking for an apology. These parents should be facing a lawsuit filed by the victim of the bullying.

So to answer your question again. Yes I believe defending yourself is still fighting. And should be punished as such.
 
Nate505 said:
I'm with the mother on that stance. Not for a particular piece of clothing, but for one that's giving into terrorists. People shouldn't be banned from wearing clothing because a group of thugs are attacking people from wearing it. If the school wants to go to uniforms though fine with me.
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sorry log i agree with nate on this one. I was born free and stay free. but i know if i wear a red hoody or whatever i might get flack or ****. i will just be more alert.
i will not give in to terrorist
 
gregbroncs said:
Defending yourself is still fighting. It takes 2 people to fight. It was a physical altercation in which both parties fought with each other. One was in the right and one was the instigator. Not suspending someone for fighting sends the wrong message to the rest of the students. However like I have said I do not believe that a suspension was a severe enough penalty for the instigator of this fight. He should be expelled and/or sent to juvenile detention. His parents obviously have done nothing to teach him that he was in the wrong as they are now asking for an apology. These parents should be facing a lawsuit filed by the victim of the bullying.

So to answer your question again. Yes I believe defending yourself is still fighting. And should be punished as such.
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self defense VS figting is kinda my field of "expertise". english is not my expertise obviousluy. so i cant really explain the differnce i tried earlier in this thread but you don't understand it.

imho opinion self defense and fighting are not the same and what happened in that video for as far as i saw is not fighting. bully was picking a fight casey defended himself. too bad the line si blurring between what is self defense and other stuff. not only the line between fighting and self defense. but also between self defense and murder.

on the other hand casey will learn that society does not like when u take the law in your own hand.

the "self defense" dillemmma effects adults too. if i'm in the street and someone is picking a fight i am thinking twice knowing that i might spend the night in jail knowing that the PIGS might arrest me.
 
1. Consent - Both parties agree to a fight, in a self defense situation, the attacker chooses you.

2. Awareness- In a fight you are aware that it is going to happen i.e. you both square off, or meet at a certain time/place etc. In a self defense situation you can be ambushed, or a person might be aggressive towards you but you cant always tell for sure if things will go physical.

3. Preparation- Even if you agree to a fight a few moments beforehand there is some time to prepare. Self defense situations often go from 0 to 100 in a matter of seconds.
 
Nate505 said:
I'm with the mother on that stance. Not for a particular piece of clothing, but for one that's giving into terrorists. People shouldn't be banned from wearing clothing because a group of thugs are attacking people from wearing it. If the school wants to go to uniforms though fine with me.
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I agree that we should not acquiesce to terrorists but was it really worth risking her son's life so he could wear his redskins hoodie for another month? Also what is the definition of terrorist? if I remember corectly is was a gang of about 8 or 10 kids who had been expelled and were shooting at kids after school, targeting kids in red hoodies. I also remember they made it clear it was temporary until they tracked down the few people involved and they did so fairly quickly. I do not see this as in any way the same as giving in to terrorist demands as they behead people.

I can see the outrage if there is no reasoning behind it or if it is just a show of power by the school. But I for one would just tell my kid to wear his gray hoodie for a while. The possible repercussions seem to be an awful high price to pay to risk my teen being killed just to wear a shirt he likes. A 14-year-old getting shot so he can "stick it to the man" just seems incredibly stupid to me.


[edit]

I've tried and can't find the details anywhere. Seems like it was 1993 or thereabouts. I emailed a friend who is a cop in Layton and he said he thought it was at West in SLC. He remembered one kid being shot and injured and then threats being made that anyone wearing red would be shot and killed so the school put a temporary ban on red sweaters and coats into place (it was winter). Still an interesting point of conversation.
 
Certain clothing being banned at school is nothing new. It could be colors or types or how you wear them. Ultimately you've got to keep the school safe while still trying to let kids keep their rights. While the constitution isn't thrown out the window at the doors of the school, it doesn't mean you are free to wear whatever you want. The school does not have time to investigate each individual over whether they are wearing colors for a certain gang or colors cuz they felt like it that day.

It's really not worth dying on that beach unless your a moron.
 
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