Burks playing team ball; Lyles not

[fishonjazz]

You're seeing what you want to see. His assists/36 mins is a career low (1.7) and about half his career average (3.0), while his shots/36 is right on his career average (13.2). He's actually shooting just as much as ever, but passing to the open man far *less*.

Breaking down his shooting, his three-point attempts/36 are a career-high (4.5) while shooting a career-low percentage (30%). He's barely better at shooting 3s than the much-maligned Exum, and they both jack up 3s at the same rate per 36 (4.5).

Now to be fair, he is shooting a career-high percentage overall, and is way, way better on his two-point shots. He hovered around the 40% mark inside the arc over the past two (short) seasons, and has never been above 48% in any season, but this year he is at 55%. Perhaps it would have been more accurate to say he is taking better shots, rather than claiming he is passing them up. But he is still the same score-first Alec, maybe even more so, but at least is taking better shots.

A very subjective assessment, "better shots". But still accurate - he is the worst shooter inside the arc out of everyone on the team, making only 44% of his two-point shots. His 33% rate outside the arc is also uninspiring. So yeah, pretty much everyone on the team is a better shooting option than Lyles.

Question. Does number of assists always correlate with willingness to pass? Can one pass the ball and not pick up an assist from the pass?

 

[Revolution 9]

I dont think we should give up on him yet.

I'm just souring on his play of late. Whens hes adding offense it really hides his lack of rebounding, and defense.
When he's clanking shot after shot its hard to justify him being out there.

I hope he develops a back to the basket game, which I see him working on. I just wish he would hit those wide open 3 point shots consistently.
I'm seeing Bolomboy knocking those down game after game, and he plays defense.

 

[elan_prodigy]

Lyles has an ugly shot IMO, very inconsistent arc.

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Agree. When he's shooting well the ball has a low trajectory. He's been all over the show this year.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

I dont think we should give up on him yet.

I'm just souring on his play of late. Whens hes adding offense it really hides his lack of rebounding, and defense.
When he's clanking shot after shot its hard to justify him being out there.

I hope he develops a back to the basket game, which I see him working on. I just wish he would hit those wide open 3 point shots consistently.
I'm seeing Bolomboy knocking those down game after game, and he plays defense.

Bolomboy plays starter minutes and gets rhythm against scrubs. Judging by how many points the stars give up, his defense isn't that good.

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[Revolution 9]

Judging by how many points the stars give up, his defense isn't that good.

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laughable at best

 

[Getting Traded]

You're seeing what you want to see.

No, this is what I've seen of late, more directly the last game the Jazz played. This has been more of a trend for Lyles, but Burks has been passing up shots in recent games in an effort to move the ball. Your stats may indicate what he has been doing overall since he came back, but it's really not fair to judge him on this small sample, especially since he's barely played in over a year. The point is that he is trying to fit in. The strengths of both are to be dynamic scorers. But they need to find a way to best fit in to the overall scheme of the Jazz. Burks seems to be trying to do that but not Lyles.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

laughable at best

The laughable **** is you comparing a guys play at the d-league level to Lyles at the NBA.

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[gregbroncs]

Question. Does number of assists always correlate with willingness to pass? Can one pass the ball and not pick up an assist from the pass?

Not necessarily, But I think willingness to pass when you are in a position to score would correlate to assists. When you are in a position to score you are drawing a lot more attention than just standing at the top of the key for a swing pass. I don't think Burks passes well or often when he is in a position to score. It's not that he's not a willing passer, he just doesn't see, or want to see, open players when he is in position to score. Once Burks drives into the lane, the shot is coming from him at a higher % than most of the guys on our team. Those plays can get you assists more often than just passing it within the standard offense. I believe that is why Burks' assist rate is so low. I like the way Burks has played this year, I've not always been his biggest fan. He adds some very good things to this roster, but I'd rather have either of Ingles or Hood on the floor over him.

 

[gregbroncs]

No, this is what I've seen of late, more directly the last game the Jazz played. This has been more of a trend for Lyles, but Burks has been passing up shots in recent games in an effort to move the ball. Your stats may indicate what he has been doing overall since he came back, but it's really not fair to judge him on this small sample, especially since he's barely played in over a year. The point is that he is trying to fit in. The strengths of both are to be dynamic scorers. But they need to find a way to best fit in to the overall scheme of the Jazz. Burks seems to be trying to do that but not Lyles.

I think your seeing what you want to see. Burks looks better passing to me than he has in the past. But he still gets tunnel vision while driving most of the time.

 

[MDAV28]

I'd like to see a little more plays revolving around Alec Burks cuts, utilizing his skill set. Most of his drives are really just isolation, pick and roll, or pushing in transition.

Just look at this beautiful play:

https://streamable.com/p7hth

Yes, it's Kanter and any competent big would have rotated earlier, but Alec getting a head start like that matched on a big, is a pretty good matchup.

 

[NAOS]

I'd like to see a little more plays revolving around Alec Burks cuts, utilizing his skill set. Most of his drives are really just isolation, pick and roll, or pushing in transition.

Just look at this beautiful play:

https://streamable.com/p7hth

Yes, it's Kanter and any competent big would have rotated earlier, but Alec getting a head start like that matched on a big, is a pretty good matchup.

Impressed. Kanter seemed to understand that was entirely his fault. Progress.

 

[Hitman]

Question. Does number of assists always correlate with willingness to pass? Can one pass the ball and not pick up an assist from the pass?

Just to be clear, the subjective assertion made was that Burks is "passing up shots he could've taken to move the ball to a more open man". If you are open for a shot, but passing to someone "more open", i.e. in position to shoot, then we are talking specifically about assist opportunities. If the assertion is true, then objectively, either his shooting rate should drop, or his assist rate increase, or both. Neither happened, and in fact he is assisting less so far this season.

The subsequent assertion was that this was only a recent development, and thus not yet verifiable - and that's fair enough. However, this will be measurable going forward, as this thread now records a baseline of his performance. But I'll just repeat that he is shooting a good percentage, so even if he is shooting rather than passing, that's not a bad thing.

With that out of the way: My totally subjective observation is that if an individual is more willing to pass, he will get more assists - the more they look to pass, the more they will see open team-mates they wouldn't have seen before. The proportion of assist passes to other passes (and to shots taken) will depend on their role in the offence and their skillset.