David Stern
Well-Known Member
You lost all credibility at this point of the post.
BYU @ Florida State Game Thread
- Thread starter David Stern
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You lost all credibility at this point of the post.
David Stern
Well-Known Member
First of all, I'm being very realistic at this point. Football is all about matchups, and I think BYU would've matched up just as well with Pitt as Utah did. Heaven forbid I have an opinion. The other two games are obviously wins. And yes, you do have fans right now who are thinking 12-0 or 13-0, and you're over ranked at 13 with the weak schedule that you've played. Maybe you'll prove the ranking to be correct later on, but right now its too high. 20-25 sounds about right.
And I'm not really angry or bitter. BYU has a VERY young team, and they've been playing experienced teams, and one they obviously don't match up well with at all (FSU). I can understand the experience factor, but supporting cast has nothing to do with how good a player is. It does directly relate to how successful a player can be, which is different. I'm in the majority of Cougar fans who are willing to let Heaps take his beatings this year, just to set up for a great future (see: TCU 2007)
David Stern
Well-Known Member
Heaven forbid, BYU doesn't play Utah for another 10 weeks. There's plenty of time to get better before then. But yes, Utah should beat BYU this year. If they don't, then don't be expecting a Ute win in the game for a few years.
SaltyDawg
Well-Known Member
Care to elaborate? How the heck isn't Tino Sunseri a good QB? He has a QB rating of 136.22, and averages 229.5 yards passing, and 1.5 touchdowns per game with a 64.5 completion percentage. That may not be the best in the nation, but it's pretty good. Especially considering that half of his games so far have been against one of the best defenses in the nation (and on the road).
Hillarious. Air Force runs for over 400 yards on BYU, Florida State runs for almost 300 yards against them, and you think BYU could have stopped Pitt's Heisman candidate running back? Not to mention Baldwin being better than any receiver BYU has faced so far. What on earth would make you say football is all about matchups, and then in the same post say BYU matches up just as good as Utah to Pitt?
Utah has one of the best defenses in the nation, BYU has one of the worst. That's why Utah beat Pitt, and BYU would have been crushed. Utah's D line is as good as anyone in the nation, and they have athletic playmakers in the secondary too. BYU has none of that.
D
Deleted member 365
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Some Utah fans have such short memories.
I love how they blast Heaps. Anyone else remember Jordan last year? The dude sucked until the Cal game. I actually believe that if BYU really opens the playbook and develops Heaps, then their offense could end up being pretty decent. I'm not sure if they have the athletes both on the offensive line or out on the perimeter to become a good offense... But they'll be better if Heaps can stay healthy and develop. Heaps is the strongest QB that BYU has had in years. Whether he develops or not, we'll see. But I think it's pretty hypocritical that some (not all) Utah fans seem to throwing Heaps away already after 3 quarters of a game that was clearly unwinnable.
I don't think they'll have a chance against Utah defensively. Quite honestly, the difference in team speed defensively has never been so greater. Utah's offensive linemen are faster than BYU's DBs.
I love how they blast Heaps. Anyone else remember Jordan last year? The dude sucked until the Cal game. I actually believe that if BYU really opens the playbook and develops Heaps, then their offense could end up being pretty decent. I'm not sure if they have the athletes both on the offensive line or out on the perimeter to become a good offense... But they'll be better if Heaps can stay healthy and develop. Heaps is the strongest QB that BYU has had in years. Whether he develops or not, we'll see. But I think it's pretty hypocritical that some (not all) Utah fans seem to throwing Heaps away already after 3 quarters of a game that was clearly unwinnable.
I don't think they'll have a chance against Utah defensively. Quite honestly, the difference in team speed defensively has never been so greater. Utah's offensive linemen are faster than BYU's DBs.
Duck Rodgers
Well-Known Member
Yes, BYU doesn't have problems with those little running backs. It's the ****ing guys that break tackles and then look like Usain Bolt coming out of the blocks that BYU has trouble with. That guy on Florida State that broke those long runs had ****ing ridiculous speed and power. I think it was actually Andrian Peterson out there for them.
7StraightIsGreat
Well-Known Member
Thriller: I'm not one of the Ute fans blasting Heaps, but you brought up a great point in your concern about recruiting. Let's say Heaps leaves after 3 years. That means after Heaps gets his "learning" year out of the way, he basically has 2 years playing QB at BYU. Where are the WR's going to come from in that time? Where are the TE's going to come from?
Look, I don't think I'm being a hater here. I just think it's a pretty honest fact that BYU better hurry and get some talent around this kid if they want to maximize the Jake Heaps experience. Their WR's are simply awful. Is the next Austin Collie waiting in the wings? All of their TE's are freshman and at this point don't show the potential that BYU is used to having at that position.
As much as I think Stern is a boob, his idea that BYU is young and once they mature they will be better is usually a sound idea when talking about BYU, but at this point and time I think he's dead wrong. Using the 2007 TCU team as an example of what BYU is going through right now is simply laughable and is the perfect example of a fan grasping at straws. BYU's current talent pool comes up EXTREMELY short when compared to what TCU was working with in 2007.
Experience is good for any young team, but what good is experience when most of these youngsters are nothing but average (if that)? Who's a young up-and-coming star on BYU's defense? Byu's defense is made up of 2nd and 3rd teamers if they were at Utah or TCU this year. Maybe Jake Heaps is everything that BYU fans say he will be, but I bet his years at BYU are underminded by voids of talent in other areas of the roster.
Look, I don't think I'm being a hater here. I just think it's a pretty honest fact that BYU better hurry and get some talent around this kid if they want to maximize the Jake Heaps experience. Their WR's are simply awful. Is the next Austin Collie waiting in the wings? All of their TE's are freshman and at this point don't show the potential that BYU is used to having at that position.
As much as I think Stern is a boob, his idea that BYU is young and once they mature they will be better is usually a sound idea when talking about BYU, but at this point and time I think he's dead wrong. Using the 2007 TCU team as an example of what BYU is going through right now is simply laughable and is the perfect example of a fan grasping at straws. BYU's current talent pool comes up EXTREMELY short when compared to what TCU was working with in 2007.
Experience is good for any young team, but what good is experience when most of these youngsters are nothing but average (if that)? Who's a young up-and-coming star on BYU's defense? Byu's defense is made up of 2nd and 3rd teamers if they were at Utah or TCU this year. Maybe Jake Heaps is everything that BYU fans say he will be, but I bet his years at BYU are underminded by voids of talent in other areas of the roster.
David Stern
Well-Known Member
BYU matches up better with Pitt simply because they don't have a mobile QB. In fact, experienced mobile QBs have been what has killed BYU so far this young season. Since Pitt doesn't have that, thats where my opinion comes from. Florida State is the style of team BYU struggles with, but Pitt is the exact opposite of that scheme.
Stats don't mean everything in football, we know this. Somebody said inexperience is a huge key in college football, and Pitts QB has played two games. Two games really don't mean much, we have no idea how good that QB is. He will not have a great year, as most first year QBs don't. You're definitely making a huge stretch to say he's a great QB after just two games.
And on your point of defense, Utah has a good defense that hasn't really been tested, so saying they are one of the best defenses in the nation is also a stretch.
David Stern
Well-Known Member
Honestly you're the one who is grasping at straws. In 2007, TCU played two QBs, started out the season tough, but came back to get to 8-5. That's not exactly a horrible comparison. If you've watched BYU this year, you'll know they actually have some pretty good athletes. The fundamentals are what is killing this young team right now, which is easily correctable. We've got the talent, the experience will come and this team will get better. We've played the 5th best schedule in the Nation so far, so saying this team won't get better as the teams get easier isn't too far fetched.
SaltyDawg
Well-Known Member
Dion Lewis, Pitt's star running back, is 5' 8", 195 pounds. Chris Thompson, Florida State's leading rusher in that BYU game, is 5' 8" and 186 pounds. Asher Clark, Air Force's leading rusher in that BYU game, is 5' 8" and 185 pounds.
I have every reason to think that Pitt would have ran all over BYU if they had played them instead of Utah. Not only that, but Baldwin would have looked like Randy Moss in his prime.
I'm not one of the guys saying Heaps sucks. I do agree that he is not as good as Wynn or even Cain right now, but I can see that he has some potential and might be pretty good someday. But to say BYU would have beat Pitt, and they match up with them as good as Utah does, well that is just flat out ridiculous. BYU hasn't stopped anyone from running all over them yet. That BYU game was the only game all seaon where Clark (Air Force) ran for more than 84 yards, and the only game Thompson (Florida State) ran for more than 17 yards.
These aren't star running backs lighting up BYU. They haven't faced a star running back yet. So to say they they could have stopped a star running back like Dion Lewis just as well as Utah did, when they have been getting run all over by every scrub running back they face, is ridiculous.
Pitt is not a bad team. They will finish ranked and play in a BCS game, and they would have crushed BYU if they would have played them instead of Utah. Utah was just better than Pitt.
Washington, on the other hand, is a bad team.
SaltyDawg
Well-Known Member
1: Pitt may not have a mobile QB, but they have a Heisman candidate at running back- much better than any running back BYU has faced yet this year.
2: Pitt's QB may have only played 2 games, but BYU's QB has only played 3 games after that Florida State game. And Pitt's QB has put up way better numbers in those 2 games than BYU's. Not sure how you can say experience is a factor when they have more experience than BYU at every position except QB, and they are tied at QB experience.
3: Pitt has an NFL first rounder at receiver. If you think BYU's horrible secondary could handle him, you're crazy.
4: Utah's defense has been tested. Not only are a lot of them returning from last year (and before) but they played Pitt and held their NFL prospects in check. Baldwin and Lewis will both be playing in the NFL, and neither of them went off against Utah.
You're not making a lot of sense here. The bottom line is you said Pitt was a "BAD" team, and BYU would match up with them just as well as Utah did. But the fact is BYU has been killed by way worse running backs, and hasn't seen an NFL caliber receiver (like Pitt's Baldwin) yet. All evidence points to Pitt destroying BYU. And they are in the top 30 in both polls after 3 weeks, so they are obviously not a "BAD" team.
Look Sterno, I can appreciate that you are devoted enough to go to the wall for your team. But frankly, I think you are getting yourself more worked up than the Utah fans you hate so much. Who are these guys you claim are predicting Utah to go 12-0? I don't remember seeing that in this forum, even from Salty. I've seen a lot of cautious optimism, but you still have yet to explain what "delusions" you are talking about.
While I've got my soapbox out, let me tell you my feelings on Jake Heaps (although I'm sure you think you already know - you know ute fans so well...)
JH is a talented kid. He's got a hell of an arm. On paper, he should be the perfect fit for BYU's offense. And really, if he can be developed, with the right pieces around him, he can be a stellar college QB. But that's a big IF. As jazzman12 has pointed out, those pieces don't appear to be there. Perhaps they will be, at some point. But that's a lot of work still yet to do.
Personally, I'd like to see them get it done. I'd love to see how JH measures up to the hype. I'd love to see him get a proper shot. But as it is, he's not getting the opportunity that he and his PR rep signed up for.
While I've got my soapbox out, let me tell you my feelings on Jake Heaps (although I'm sure you think you already know - you know ute fans so well...)
JH is a talented kid. He's got a hell of an arm. On paper, he should be the perfect fit for BYU's offense. And really, if he can be developed, with the right pieces around him, he can be a stellar college QB. But that's a big IF. As jazzman12 has pointed out, those pieces don't appear to be there. Perhaps they will be, at some point. But that's a lot of work still yet to do.
Personally, I'd like to see them get it done. I'd love to see how JH measures up to the hype. I'd love to see him get a proper shot. But as it is, he's not getting the opportunity that he and his PR rep signed up for.