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BYU Football 2012

Hartsock said:
He was also basically playing out of position as a DE in a 3-4. If he was in a 4-3 I bet his #'s would look a lot better.
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Agreed. Although some scouts like him as a 3-4 OLB I think he is taylormade for the 4-3. That's the nice thing with him is you could change schemes and still use him.
 
JazzSpazz said:
Easily half of the "rewind and watch that again" moments from BYU football last year were from Ziggy, probably even closer to 3/4 of them. Many of his plays did not show up in a box score. You would see him on the other side of a play shedding a blocker and running down a rb or qb from behind and the other side of the field, jumping over fullbacks to make a stop, getting in the face of qb's and rushing them so they throw an incomplete pass and are running for their lives..... no box score for some of that, but definitely affected the plays.

Also let me get this straight:

Pedestrian: (Ziggy)
62 tackles - 13 tfl - 4.5 sacks - 1 int - 9 pass breakups - 6 qbh - 1 ff

Awesome (Star)
42 tackles - 10 tfl - 5.0 sacks - 0 int - 4 pass breakubs - 1 qbh - 3 ff

hmmmmmmm...

I do realize they play slightly different positions on the line, but both are very very good at what they do.
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Don't really see why you felt like you needed to throw the Star comparison in there. First of all, it's a complete apples to oranges argument. 2 guys who play different positions and were expected to do different things. Also, it may suprise you that I think Ziggy has more NFL upside than Star. I do think Star is the safer pick in the sense that I don't think he has as high of a bust factor as Ziggy, but as far as what each player could become at the next level, Ziggy wins.

And for the record, I never said Ziggy wouldn't be a "good" pro. The biggest question in my mind is whether or not he's worth a pick in the top 5 or 10. He's certainly a first round talent, but he's so raw that whatever team takes him better be ready to give him a few years to grow into the type of player you draft that high. If Ziggy ends up being a bust, I think it will have more to do with the fact that maybe he's drafted by a team not willing to give him the time he needs to come into his own and then you see a coach/GM get fired, a new guy come in, and Ziggy is lost in the shuffle.
 
jazzman12 said:
Don't really see why you felt like you needed to throw the Star comparison in there. First of all, it's a complete apples to oranges argument. 2 guys who play different positions and were expected to do different things. Also, it may suprise you that I think Ziggy has more NFL upside than Star. I do think Star is the safer pick in the sense that I don't think he has as high of a bust factor as Ziggy, but as far as what each player could become at the next level, Ziggy wins.

And for the record, I never said Ziggy wouldn't be a "good" pro. The biggest question in my mind is whether or not he's worth a pick in the top 5 or 10. He's certainly a first round talent, but he's so raw that whatever team takes him better be ready to give him a few years to grow into the type of player you draft that high. If Ziggy ends up being a bust, I think it will have more to do with the fact that maybe he's drafted by a team not willing to give him the time he needs to come into his own and then you see a coach/GM get fired, a new guy come in, and Ziggy is lost in the shuffle.
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A 3-4 DE is pretty comparable to a 4-3 DT actually, so its an apples to grapples comparison. Ziggy was great the first few games he started, he kind of tailed off towards the end of the season but then had a fantastic bowl game to keep his stock high. I see what you are saying though, there were a few games he disappeared in, but overall he was very very good.
 
jazzman12 said:
Don't really see why you felt like you needed to throw the Star comparison in there. First of all, it's a complete apples to oranges argument. 2 guys who play different positions and were expected to do different things. Also, it may suprise you that I think Ziggy has more NFL upside than Star. I do think Star is the safer pick in the sense that I don't think he has as high of a bust factor as Ziggy, but as far as what each player could become at the next level, Ziggy wins.

And for the record, I never said Ziggy wouldn't be a "good" pro. The biggest question in my mind is whether or not he's worth a pick in the top 5 or 10. He's certainly a first round talent, but he's so raw that whatever team takes him better be ready to give him a few years to grow into the type of player you draft that high. If Ziggy ends up being a bust, I think it will have more to do with the fact that maybe he's drafted by a team not willing to give him the time he needs to come into his own and then you see a coach/GM get fired, a new guy come in, and Ziggy is lost in the shuffle.
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I showed the stat comparison because both are going high in the draft, both are known commodities to us here, and both play on the d-line.
Specifically it was about the pedestrian stat comment.
Both are great players and fill a role, that was not the point of the comparison.

The point is we know Star is good, we know Ziggy is good.... then we look at their stats. Either you think both stat lines are pedestrian, or you made the comment without thinking. If both stat lines are pedestrian, what do you expect stat wise from d-line first rounders?
 
JazzSpazz said:
I showed the stat comparison because both are going high in the draft, both are known commodities to us here, and both play on the d-line.
Specifically it was about the pedestrian stat comment.
Both are great players and fill a role, that was not the point of the comparison.

The point is we know Star is good, we know Ziggy is good.... then we look at their stats. Either you think both stat lines are pedestrian, or you made the comment without thinking. If both stat lines are pedestrian, what do you expect stat wise from d-line first rounders?
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Of course Star's stat line looks pedestrian. A DT's effectivitey rarely shows in a stat sheet. Star excels in the areas that make DT's good: eating up blockers so others can get tackles, winning at the line of scrimmage during running plays, etc. Ziggy is a guy who goes from being a rush end, to an OLB depending on your scheme. Why I say that Ziggy's numbers look pedestrian is because I think those numbers are indeed rather pedestrian if you're looking at him as a top 5 pick who is being drafted based almost entirely on his pass rushing abilities.

Von Miller was a top 5 pick a couple years back and was a guy who rotated between DE and OLB depending on the scheme. I realize Von was a much more polished player coming out of college but that's part of my point: Ziggy is not as polished, thus I think we all agree that he is being drafted on potential.

Von Miller's numbers his last 2 years of college:

As a junior in 2009, Miller adopted the role of the jack position, a defensive end/linebacker hybrid, which allowed him to utilize his pass rushing abilities. He enjoyed a breakout season for the Aggies, leading the nation in sacks with 17 and ranking fourth in the nation with 21 tackles for loss
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In 2010, Miller switched to playing as a 3–4 outside linebacker under Tim DeRuyter's defense. Early in the season, Miller suffered a high ankle sprain, that held him back for the first six games.[6] He posted 10.5 sacks and 17.5 tackles for loss
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Obviously, those numbers are jaw-dropping when stacked up against Ziggy's. I realize there are a lot of different circumstances between the two, but the numbers show that Miller was as close to a sure thing top 5 pick as you can get. Ziggy's potential is there, but will he get there? I think it's fair to ask considering he's almost certainly a lock to be a top 10 and possibly even top 5 pick. I think it's also fair to call the kid a project.
 
Just found out I can upload a picture online to be put on my debit card.

Praying they will allow this...

utah-byu-04.jpg
 
Ah yes, the agony of the postseason. Ute fans have been spared that agony in most every sport except womens gymnastics.
 
CONAN said:
Ah yes, the agony of the postseason. Ute fans have been spared that agony in most every sport except womens gymnastics.
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No that was that game where we gave you guys 3 tries to win but your kicker doinked and JD Falslev cried on the field after prematurely celebrating and I rushed the field and yelled stuff at byu players.

Regular Season.
 
UGLI baby said:
No that was that game where we gave you guys 3 tries to win but your kicker doinked and JD Falslev cried on the field after prematurely celebrating and I rushed the field and yelled stuff at byu players.

Regular Season.
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The only season you are going to know for awhile.
 
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