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Championship Disparity

Rimcheck said:
Just listened to a David Stern press conference that happened a day or two ago. He had nothing but praise for Boston and LA. One reporter asked about championship disparity and he gave props to Jerry Buss, Bill Russell and others from those two organizations. Then he basically said they are the two best teams because they know how to put together winning basketball teams. NOPE! Here is how you put together a winning basketball team, $$$.

Highest NBA Payroll: Source https://hoopshype.com/salaries.htm
#1 Lakers - $91 million
#3 Celtics - $86 million
#10 Jazz - $74 million

If the Jazz added another all star caliber player in the $12 - $17 million range, we'd likely be in the finals too.
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NYK Portland and Dallas have all spent like crazy and have no championships to speak of. SA & DET have both spent fairly close to a lot of playoff teams and have had a lot of success. Money does not equal championships.
 
NYK Portland and Dallas have all spent like crazy and have no championships to speak of. SA & DET have both spent fairly close to a lot of playoff teams and have had a lot of success. Money does not equal championships.
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This is a good point Chad. Great players and coaches equal championships, but in many cases, it requires a lot of $$ to attract the great ones. :)
 
Most championship teams are built through the draft and trades. Not attracting free agents.

Key players for championship series
Lakers: Gasol (trade) Kobe(traded for on draft day)Odom(trade)Bynum(draft)
Celtics: Pierce(draft) Ray Allen(trade) Garnett(trade) Rondo (draft)
Suns: Nash(FA but Dallas could have matched and kept him) Amare (draft) JRich(trade)
ORL: Howard (draft) Nelson(draft) Carter(trade) Lewis(FA, but he is their 4th best player.)

The only one I can think of in the last 10-15 years who was signed as a big time FA and made his team win championships was Shaq. Spurs were built through the draft. Pistons through draft and trades. Miami draft and trades Bulls draft and trades.
 
Based on the draft/trade formula, the Jazz simply need to not win for two or three seasons and finally get some high first rounders (excluding the Dwill trade up).
Because it is pretty apparent that the Jazz FO cannot pull off a big trade. Biggest trade we've pulled off for an existing NBA player in the last 10 years was probably Kyle Korver.
 
Some of it is luck/and or good management. Look at SA. They get two #1 picks overall and then a couple diamonds in the rough (Parker and Ginobli) pair that with a great coach.

Trades aren't always the answer. Dallas has made some big trades and and haven't come up with anything out of it. Detroit has and Miami has.

There is no perfect formula.

What sucks is when one team gets good they stay good for too long. i.e. Lakers, Spurs, Bulls.
 
Rimcheck said:
I just read the following statistic, and it is really disheartening. It makes it even more difficult to be optimistic about my team's chances of ever winning a title.

"In the previous 63 NBA Finals, the Celtics (21) and Lakers (31) have combined for 52 appearances. And 32 NBA titles. (That's half.)" If you add in the 10 titles between the Bulls and Spurs, that means that 67% of the NBA championships have been won by 4 teams.

17 Boston Celtics 1957 1959 1960 1961 1962 1963 1964 1965 1966 1968 1969
1974 1976 1981 1984 1986,2008
15 Minneapolis/Los Angeles Lakers 1949 1950 1952 1953 1954 1972 1980 1982 1985 1987 1988
2000 2001 2002,2009
6 Chicago Bulls 1991 1992 1993 1996 1997 1998
4 San Antonio Spurs 1999 2003 2005 2007
3 Philadelphia/Golden State Warriors 1947 1956 1975
3 Syracuse Nationals/Philadelphia 76ers 1955 1967 1983
3 Detroit Pistons 1989 1990 2004
2 Baltimore/Washington Bullets 1948 1978
2 Houston Rockets 1994 1995
2 New York Knickerbockers 1970 1973
1 Miami Heat 2006
1 Milwaukee Bucks 1971
1 Portland Trailblazers 1977
1 Rochester Royals 1951
1 Saint Louis Hawks 1958
1 Seattle Supersonics 1979

The following teams have NEVER won:
Jazz
Timberwolves
Pacers
Nuggets
Grizzlies
Mavericks
Hornets
Clippers
Kings
Suns
Nets (although I think they won an ABA championship)
Cavaliers
Bobcats
Hawks (although they did win one when they were in St. Louis)
Magic
Raptors
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I don't make appearances in General NBA all that often, but I found this and just couldn't resist myself:

Q. I agree with you the Lakers Celtics is exciting but it also underscores the fact that the majority of Finals appearances and championships have been concentrated among a small number of teams. Is that bad for the league, A? And B, is there anything that can be done about it?

COMMISSIONER DAVID STERN: Yeah, we could have taken Bill Russell and Red Auerbach away from the Celtics and deprived Dr. Buss of his ownership of the Lakers. He's been an owner for 30 years and the team has been in The Finals 15 times. You know, you give credit where credit is due, to Russ, to Jerry, to Red. That's what our sport is about. Hats off to the Lakers and the Celtics for being persistent and consistent winners in the league.
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What I heard:

Reporter: The majority of Finals appearances and championships have been concentrated among a small number of teams. Is that bad for the league, A? And B, is there anything that can be done about it?

Stern: ISN'T IT AMAZING THAT TWO ORGANIZATIONS CAN KEEP IT UP SO MANY YEARS?

Reporter: Mr Stern, I don't believe you answered my question. Neither part a or b.

Stern: CAN'T YOU JUST BE HAPPY FOR THE LAKERS AND CELTICS?

Reporter: I'm very happy for the--

Stern: CASE CLOSED. NEXT QUESTION
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So we've a commissioner that won't even think that it might be better for the organization as a whole to look into something like this. This bodes well for the NBA.
 
I think Stern knows there is a problem. He knows the players have WAY too much power and can destroy franchises with horrible 5 years contract disasters. Will getting rid of totally guaranteed contracts do it? I think it would help from keeping teams from being horrible so long (like the Knicks). Look what it has done with the NFL. However it is not a cure for inept owners and general managers. Those teams will always suck.
 
Playing Devil's Advocate, I doubt any of us would be complaining if it were the Jazz who were perpetually hoisting championship banners up to the rafters year after year.

The baseball comparisons don't necessarily hold with regard to the NBA. Take one cursory look at the top of the heap in MLB, the Yankees; their payroll is ludicrously high. Their opening-day payroll this season was $213 million - and they are not locks to win in October by any means. You can do a similar surface-level analysis of the NBA and see similar results. That debacle that was the Knicks' payroll was at an all-time high of $130 million in 2005-2006, yet they ended up with the second-worst record in the Association.

I just don't see a direct correlation between spending and championships. Surely you have to pay a lot to get free agents, trades, etc., but it needs to be done intelligently. Simply assembling a pseudo-dream team of free agents won't get it done alone if there is no chemistry.
 
Mambo said:
Both have chips
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Yep. Pay for your teams for long enough and eventually spending more than most of the league gets you a championship.

They need a hard cap. Then those teams with super stars will have a harder time keeping good players around them and it will even the playing field.
 
Mambo said:
Both have chips
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Not in the last 25 yrs or so. Spending a lot doesnt guarantee anything. Spending smartly does.
The Jazz themselves are an example. They went over the LT last year and got eliminated in the second round.
But 2 yrs back.,When they had a modest payroll they went all the way to the WCF. Which brings me to the next point...luck.

Most folks dont talk about it, but luck plays a huge part. The Gashole trade to LA is a case in point. Also the big stars of winning franchises like the Spurs and Lakers, the Duncans and Kobes manage to stay healthy a lot. That involves luck too. Save for Deron,we have guys that break down a lot on our team, and at the wrong time.
The longevity of Malone/Stock too can be attributed to good luck(even by their own admission), besides of course
their fitness training and workouts and all that. It atleats helped them get to the Finals twice. But other than that, Jazz never seem to have that luck when it matters the most, especially of late.
 
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