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China/Japan

Stoked

Stoked

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Japan has been scrambling fighters (F-15s...) everytime a Chinese plane is spotted over/near the Senkaku Islands that the two countries are fighting over.

Well China just scrambled fighters to chase off a Japanese plane.
Japan is increasing the number of coast guard vesels patroling the islands.
Japan is setting up a "special unit" for the defense of the islands.
China and Japan are increasing their military budgets.
Chinese think tank thinks that open conflict over the islands between Japan and China is "inevitable"
USA has publicly stated that they are bound to defend Japan and its territory which includes the Senkaku Islands.
Japan and China have summoned the other ambassadors and officially complained.
Japan is providing patrol ships to the Phillipines to counter China.
Japan is strengthening ties with the Phillipines, America and South Korea to offset China.

Do you all think it is only a matter of time before there is war in the South China Sea?
 
I sure hope there is no war.....and if there is war i really would hope that we would just stay out of it.
 
Gameface said:
That would be pretty dirty of us since we made agreements with Japan to defend them. In return they didn't build up their military since the end of WWII until a shift only recently.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treat..._Security_between_the_United_States_and_Japan

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Security_Treaty_Between_the_United_States_and_Japan
Click to expand...

I agree. If there is war and Japan is involved the US is treaty bound to protect Japan and all of its territory. If the US broke that accord than imagine the lack of success the US would have in getting any other country signing any pact/treaty/accord with the US. They would just assume that we would break our word whenever it was convenient for us.

In short attacking/fighting with Japan is the same as attacking/fighting America.
 
India is also providing some jets to help secure trade routes around the South China Sea.

Historically, through thousands of years of history, China has been about the size it is now precisely because there is insufficient manpower to occupy further territory and/or sufficient resentment of such occupation to make it counter-productive. China's own interests depend on its trade relations, and it has always been a better policy to get along than send out the troops.

Nothing has changed.

My main reason for opposing the ideology that citizen disarmament is a good idea is just this. If there is a healthy level of gun ownership in any country, there is a reason for other countries not to get big ideas about expansion. You might plan a war against national armies, but having the troops to actually occupy and control an armed populace is another matter entirely. Not even a nuclear war can overcome that objection to aggression.

my Japanese friends twenty years ago were telling me Japan's military/industrial complex is alive and well. They have quietly been securing and storing strategic resources, and nobody has really been watching.

China has sufficient internal problems even with their generally disarmed but discontented people I think it ranks in the class of thinking I'd call insanity if they are not currently remembering their great Confucian ideals of patience and the use of wit to attain their long-range goals. . . . .

Every Chinese dynasty to date has degenerated at some point chiefly because of internal breakdowns of organization. The Great Wall of China was never a factor in their actual stability as a nation. In short, the Chinese people invented the art of passive-aggressive resistance to government, and are still the masters of it.

No need for us to have any treaties in Asia. All we have to do is have weapons available for purchase. . . . "Alliance with none, commerce with all". . . . and we'll break out of our economic slump for sure.
 
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I knew India was getting involved in the South China Sea as well but I have not gotten into how their involvment is affecting everything.

Basically it looks like China has support from Taiwan (Senkaku Islands only) Cambodia and North Korea and almost everyone else (Singapore, Japan, Vietnam, Australia, Phillipines, South Korea, Malaysia and Indonesia) is slowly being pushed into the American camp if they are not already (such as Vietnam). Having India pursue closer ties with America would be a fantastic thing.
 
Stoked said:
I knew India was getting involved in the South China Sea as well but I have not gotten into how their involvment is affecting everything.

Basically it looks like China has support from Taiwan (Senkaku Islands only) Cambodia and North Korea and almost everyone else (Singapore, Japan, Vietnam, Australia, Phillipines, South Korea, Malaysia and Indonesia) is slowly being pushed into the American camp if they are not already (such as Vietnam). Having India pursue closer ties with America would be a fantastic thing.
Click to expand...

I have followed Taiwan pretty close over the years. I think Taiwan's "support" for Chinese claims is actually a claim of their own, dating back to before WWII or even WWI, under the Formosa maps of earlier eras. Japan after WWI was given, under the League of Nations, substantial positions in the Pacific basin for supporting us in WWI, from island claims from Germany. Remember, Taiwan and China are still deadlocked on who is the legitimate Chinese government.

Chinese investment in the US continues to soar and their political access to our government is growing. I tell anyone who will listen. . . . Filipinos, Koreans, Vietnamese, Chinese residents abroad including from Taiwan, Japanese, Indonesians, Malayans etc etc don't count on the US for anything. Iranian ex-patriots hanging around Orrin Hatch's office talking about taking their country back should also doubt US "aid". Our foreign policy has been co-opted by the British, who are satisfied to drain us down to nothing as their stupid "ally". You'd think after getting sucked into imperialism in the 1890s, WWI, WWII, and substantially supporting the UN since then, and handing our Banking power over to European control, Americans would rise up and shout "no more" to the Brits. . . . but no. . . . our leading lights aspire to bow to queen and become knights of the Realm.

The Chinese and Russians would both welcome us into enlightened relations if we could only become independent again. Like I said about the Second Amendment Americans, we really don't know who to shoot at. Problem is, no other nation is any better, fundamentally, than the Brits, either. My whole world view is that it is indeed time to bring up the basic principles which inspired our independence and our unique and unparalleled form of government, and I believe we would prosper as a nation again, and would again gain respect from the people around the world who are looking for some kind of better hope.

Alliance with none, commerce with all.
 
To be honest I am not sure I want Russian and Chinese "enlightened relations".
 
I do. They're both plenty smart people as a whole, good at science and practically everything else. . . . .

We have more in common with the Russians and Chinese than we do with the British. Well, I figure we have a lot of British ancestry for sure, and somewhat the same language. . . . and religion. . . .but we've all been played against one one another by the very sophisticated Brit gentry. . . ..

yep. Marx was a paid propagandist who invented the huge distraction from American principles of government, our experiment with human liberty and freedom. The Brits intended to keep those principles in chains, and used the fake version to divert us. The Russians have had their fill of Marxism, same with the Chinese. . . just when we're' going under.

The area where I would substantially agree with you is pretty much the moral ideals left over from Christianity which can make the Brits somewhat "on the same page" at least in the religious fraction of the population.
 
https://m.timesofindia.com/world/re...ighter-jets-to-scene/articleshow/18089513.cms

Japan sent F-15s in response to a Chinese surveillance plane. China sent fighter jets in response. they entered Japanese identification air space but not actual Japanese air space. no shots fired. Also mentions that no"hotline" exists between Tokyo and Beijing and that increases the chance for a misunderstanding.

Is it only a matter of time?
 
So when did they attack us? Oh they haven't? So why he hell should we care? It's amazing what would happen if we actually listened to what general George Washington had to say about alliances and foreign relations....
 
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