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Collin Sexton SZN

fishonjazz said:
The good news here is that you can have a score first point guard who doesn't get a lot of assists and still win championships. Just have to be very good and efficient at scoring which is something that Collin has in his bag.
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But again, you need the other guard to do a lot of things to cover Sexton, and you can never insert some offensive prodigy with bad defense (like Luka) next to Sexton because your backcourt defense will be trash and get burned every game. Dallas showed that last season and will show that again this year, and they even have the ultra-rich mans Sexton, who is also taller than our Sexton.

I mean I love the guy and I hope he does make the leap but I'm just not seeing how he becomes a core piece unless he suddenly reinvents himself which is not impossible but not likely either.
 
HermanG said:
But again, you need the other guard to do a lot of things to cover Sexton, and you can never insert some offensive prodigy with bad defense (like Luka) next to Sexton because your backcourt defense will be trash and get burned every game. Dallas showed that last season and will show that again this year, and they even have the ultra-rich mans Sexton, who is also taller than our Sexton.

I mean I love the guy and I hope he does make the leap but I'm just not seeing how he becomes a core piece unless he suddenly reinvents himself which is not impossible but not likely either.
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I disagree. What you need to win championships is lebron, giannis, kahwi, steph, jokic. Doesn't really matter all that much who we trot out at point guard. Could be george, tht, dunn, sexton, etc and if we aint got that top 5 (often top 1) dude on the roster then we aint winning a chip.
Sexton at point guard isn't the problem. I think sexton could have started at point guard and won a chip on the lebron heat team, the lebron lakers team, the nuggets current team, the giannis bucks team, or the durant/steph team. Jazz team isn't good enough to win a chip. Doesn't matter if Sexton is our starting point guard, is coming off the bench as a combo guard, or is not on the team at all.
 
fishonjazz said:
I disagree. What you need to win championships is lebron, giannis, kahwi, steph, jokic. Doesn't really matter all that much who we trot out at point guard. Could be george, tht, dunn, sexton, etc and if we aint got that top 5 (often top 1) dude on the roster then we aint winning a chip.
Sexton at point guard isn't the problem. I think sexton could have started at point guard and won a chip on the lebron heat team, the lebron lakers team, the nuggets current team, the giannis bucks team, or the durant/steph team. Jazz team isn't good enough to win a chip. Doesn't matter if Sexton is our starting point guard, is coming off the bench as a combo guard, or is not on the team at all.
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Sexton making 12% of the cap could not win championships on those teams.

And the idea that since we dont have one of the super-stars needed to have a higher % at a ring means we shouldnt try to optimize the team cuz we going to lose anyway is bonkers.
 
Saint Cy of JFC said:
Sexton making 12% of the cap could not win championships on those teams.

And the idea that since we dont have one of the super-stars needed to have a higher % at a ring means we shouldnt try to optimize the team cuz we going to lose anyway is bonkers.
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Were holiday, lowry, murray, rondo, etc making way less than sexton? Starting players tend to get paid.
I dont recall saying we shouldn't try to optimize the team. The discussion was whether or not you can win a chip with sexton starting for your team. I believe that I have seen worse starters win chips. Gotta have super duper stars to win chips for the most part. Get the super duper stars and there are lots of different ways you can win with lots of different player combos.
 
fishonjazz said:
Were holiday, lowry, murray, rondo, etc making way less than sexton? Starting players tend to get paid.
I dont recall saying we shouldn't try to optimize the team. The discussion was whether or not you can win a chip with sexton starting for your team. I believe that I have seen worse starters win chips. Gotta have super duper stars to win chips for the most part. Get the super duper stars and there are lots of different ways you can win with lots of different player combos.
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Those players are much better than Sexton. Much much much much better.
 
fishonjazz said:
I disagree. What you need to win championships is lebron, giannis, kahwi, steph, jokic. Doesn't really matter all that much who we trot out at point guard. Could be george, tht, dunn, sexton, etc and if we aint got that top 5 (often top 1) dude on the roster then we aint winning a chip.
Sexton at point guard isn't the problem. I think sexton could have started at point guard and won a chip on the lebron heat team, the lebron lakers team, the nuggets current team, the giannis bucks team, or the durant/steph team. Jazz team isn't good enough to win a chip. Doesn't matter if Sexton is our starting point guard, is coming off the bench as a combo guard, or is not on the team at all.
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Then why did neither MJ or Lebron (the 2 GOATs) win anything in their first 7 years, despite being far and above the best players in the league for at least last 3 of those 7.

Jordan landed a great coach in Jackson, a great wingman in Pippen and the team started to dominate. Lebron had to go to a stacked team with Bosh and Wade among other quality players.

The top player matters more than the rest, but no player does it alone. Except Wilt, but he was a freak of nature for his time.
 
HermanG said:
Then why did neither MJ or Lebron (the 2 GOATs) win anything in their first 7 years, despite being far and above the best players in the league for at least last 3 of those 7.

Jordan landed a great coach in Jackson, a great wingman in Pippen and the team started to dominate. Lebron had to go to a stacked team with Bosh and Wade among other quality players.

The top player matters more than the rest, but no player does it alone. Except Wilt, but he was a freak of nature for his time.
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So your argument is that if Sexton is your starter you cant win a chip no matter what teammates or coaching he has around him? I disagree.
Is it also your argument that we can win a chip with Dunn, THT, or George starting? I think its possible to win a chip with each of those dudes starting if the rest of the team and coaching staff are good enough.
 
You couldn’t ask for a worse situation than what Sexton came into. He was drafted then LBJ left and the vets for whatever reason bailed on Sexton. Just go look up some articles on his situations coming in. What I saw last year was a dude trying to be an actual pg in a great environment where he had vets like Mike and JC and Markkanen who supported him which he never had in Cleveland and what I saw was a pg that wasn’t a black hole and then Conley got injured and we saw real growth from him as a pg. he never had a fair shake his first two years then was moved to sg. He can be a good pg in this league. We all saw it last year.
 
Saint Cy of JFC said:
Sexton making 12% of the cap could not win championships on those teams.

And the idea that since we dont have one of the super-stars needed to have a higher % at a ring means we shouldnt try to optimize the team cuz we going to lose anyway is bonkers.
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Lol you’re making yourself look dumb and disingenuous with comments like these.
 
Thee Idiotic Minivan K said:
You couldn’t ask for a worse situation than what Sexton came into. He was drafted then LBJ left and the vets for whatever reason bailed on Sexton. Just go look up some articles on his situations coming in. What I saw last year was a dude trying to be an actual pg in a great environment where he had vets like Mike and JC and Markkanen who supported him which he never had in Cleveland and what I saw was a pg that wasn’t a black hole and then Conley got injured and we saw real growth from him as a pg. he never had a fair shake his first two years then was moved to sg. He can be a good pg in this league. We all saw it last year.
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Anyone with a brain can see this. Dude was balling as a starter 18/5/2 on amazing efficiency last year.
 
fishonjazz said:
So your argument is that if Sexton is your starter you cant win a chip no matter what teammates or coaching he has around him? I disagree.
Is it also your argument that we can win a chip with Dunn, THT, or George starting? I think its possible to win a chip with each of those dudes starting if the rest of the team and coaching staff are good enough.
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No. My argument is that Sexton (as he is) needs very specific types of players around him if he is your starter and you want to contend. Players we dont have.

Dunn is much more flexible and a better fit with Lauri and Kessler as a superior floor general. Would also be a good fit besides almost anyone if his shooting holds up. If he is as good as the last season small sample indicates, then yes.

THT also better fit albeit his shooting makes him suspect, but he is an awesome lob passer and good defender with length.

Keyonte we dont know that much about yet. Need to see how he develops his game and succeeds at this level. But I do have high hopes for him becoming good and versatile enough to be a starter in a contender.
 
Elizah Huge said:
Lol you’re making yourself look dumb and disingenuous with comments like these.
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How am I being disingenuous?

I've said I was wrong about Sexton. He can be a positive impact player (previously I did not think that). I just dont think he is that as a starter. He is that as a 6th man. Do you know what disingenuous means?

Sexton making 12% of your cap (with a rough google search that's what it will be next year, though that will go down through the life of his contract) is not a great player to have on your team if you want to win a ring. He's a stop-gap and hopefully you make him a star in his role and are able to flip him for more down the line.
 
fishonjazz said:
So your argument is that if Sexton is your starter you cant win a chip no matter what teammates or coaching he has around him? I disagree.
Is it also your argument that we can win a chip with Dunn, THT, or George starting? I think its possible to win a chip with each of those dudes starting if the rest of the team and coaching staff are good enough.
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Dunn: No ****ing way
THT: 95% unlikely, but he has the most potential to have a large leap
George: He's a rookie who hasnt played yet, no idea.
 
HermanG said:
No. My argument is that Sexton (as he is) needs very specific types of players around him if he is your starter and you want to contend. Players we dont have.

Dunn is much more flexible and a better fit with Lauri and Kessler as a superior floor general. Would also be a good fit besides almost anyone if his shooting holds up. If he is as good as the last season small sample indicates, then yes.

THT also better fit albeit his shooting makes him suspect, but he is an awesome lob passer and good defender with length.

Keyonte we dont know that much about yet. Need to see how he develops his game and succeeds at this level. But I do have high hopes for him becoming good and versatile enough to be a starter in a contender.
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That's better
 
Saint Cy of JFC said:
Dunn: No ****ing way
THT: 95% unlikely, but he has the most potential to have a large leap
George: He's a rookie who hasnt played yet, no idea.
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Ya see Herman thinks Dunn has the best chance. You say no ****ing way.

I simply say that good basketball players can win championships but you need super duper stars and then still need everything to go perfectly.

Over the years I have seen many many average players start on teams that win championships. I think that Sexton is at a minimum an average player. Agree to disagree
 
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