Conley is a chemistry problem and we should trade him

[Handlogten's Heros]

Correlation doesn't equal causation. Mike playing over 20min coincides with our brutal part of the schedule and our bench being non-existent. As Locke pointed out, Conley had a positive +/- as a starter. Him not playing overlaps with one of the easiest schedules in the league (playing only one team over .500). And now we are playing big teams again, which is exposing some weaknesses but everyone is quick to point at Conley as the culprit.

If you look closely, our perimeter defense is at fault: Ingles, Royce and Bojan has been unable to defend big scoring threats. Even Donovan has been average at that end.

I like when someone says correlation is not causation then points out a guy who has been playing poorly has a positive +- when he plays with our other best players. Not tryin to bust ya chops but Conley has been bad and the starting lineup is a ton better when you sub joe for Mike.

I’m close to calling it on mike... there’s a laundry list of things we give him as excuses or we point to things that say he’s actually been fine. He’s been **** compared to last year and compared to what we thought we’d get... everyone is like “he moved and that is hard so it makes people miss shots” but JC and Bojan are alright... he needs to play better soon and if not then let’s stop kidding ourselves.

No more “but he’s mike Conley” stuff... take the name off the stats and we’d be wondering if this scrub is an nba player. Play better or I hope to hell the front office finds a trade for something that works.

 

[Ferguson_Mellochill]

Jazz are now 12-11 when Mike plays > 20 mins. Jazz are 20-4 when he plays < 20 / doesn’t play.

Okay, but what do these win records look like when we remove sub-.500 teams from the analysis?

 

[Ferguson_Mellochill]

FWIW, David Locke's PAC (now called "points gained" stat) identified Conley as the worst offensive player on our team who gets significant minutes--i.e., he hurts the team. Every other player was neutral or positive. Mike was a -1.6 points gained.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

FWIW, David Locke's PAC (now called "points gained" stat) identified Conley as the worst offensive player on our team who gets significant minutes--i.e., he hurts the team. Every other player was neutral or positive. Mike was a -1.6 points gained.

He’s shooting 37.5 from the field and 33 from 3... it’s on lower volumes per minute... he’s averaging less assists not surprising... but more turnovers.

these are all per 36. If it was just his individual play that’d be bad but we can figure it out... it’s the fact that his contract killed our depth and his trade took away our tradeable picks. We’ve been really good overall in spite of this but holy **** that has been a disaster.

 

[Getting Traded]

Someone may already have mentioned this, but when he entered the game in the first quarter, I think we were ahead and then the Spurs went on a big run and ballooned the lead to double digits, and we never could catch up after that. And during that stretch he was awful on both ends of the court. I remember his man scored on two consecutive possessions and our offense completely stalled. Our season is on the line with him in the lineup. The FO has to do something fast, as well as get another big who can protect the rim.

 

[jom2003]

Someone may already have mentioned this, but when he entered the game in the first quarter, I think we were ahead and then the Spurs went on a big run and ballooned the lead to double digits, and we never could catch up after that. And during that stretch he was awful on both ends of the court. I remember his man scored on two consecutive possessions and our offense completely stalled. Our season is on the line with him in the lineup. The FO has to do something fast, as well as get another big who can protect the rim.

Yep, Conley was -13 or -14 at one point when we were down by like 8 or 9.

 

[Ron Mexico]

yep, and him playing well is related to his team not playing well. pretty simple

conley is(or WAS) a good player. but he's just not as good as most made him out to be

He's underrated his whole career. It's not changing now. It is a little harder for him without a proper big for the pick and roll/pop game but he'll figure it out. He's a smart player.

 

[jom2003]

I'm not worried about one play with Rudy getting a 3-sec call. I'm worried that Conley can't get to the rim, doesn't get to the free-throw line, isn't shooting 3s very well and isn't scoring much from mid-range. When he was in Memphis he put pressure on the defense, and now for whatever reason, he doesn't.

Actually, Conley did get to the free-throw line tonight, so that's an improvement.

Conley has issues getting to the rim here cuz he had in his whole career big men who are either low post scoring threats, stretching bigs or both, that could effectively draw defenders away from him as he drives. With Rudy, the space that would otherwise be opened up to him with the presence of Marc/Zbo/JV were gone cuz bigs simply didn't need to guard Rudy anywhere outside of the painted area. When that happens, he just panic then put up some ill-adviced shots/floaters or turn it over. Just watch his games with Grizz vs with us, it's actually not hard to see the difference

 

[Getting Traded]

He's underrated his whole career. It's not changing now. It is a little harder for him without a proper big for the pick and roll/pop game but he'll figure it out. He's a smart player.

You may be right, but right now it looks like you're dead wrong.

 

[jom2003]

He's underrated his whole career. It's not changing now. It is a little harder for him without a proper big for the pick and roll/pop game but he'll figure it out. He's a smart player.

Lol I was just talking about this in the post right below you. His game is simply designed differently from us and at this point I doubt he can figure anything out any more. If he's 22 then maybe. But he's 32 and it's probably too late to reshape his game. Plus Rudy works better with taller passers anyways cuz he isn't exactly good at catching lower bouncy passes. Just not a good fit for us to begin with.

 

[Ferguson_Mellochill]

Maybe we can send Conley to the Knicks in an attempt to dignify that organization.

 

[jom2003]

Maybe we can send Conley to the Knicks in an attempt to dignify that organization.

He'd be the tank commander that Knicks needed.

 

[Ferguson_Mellochill]

He'd be the tank commander that Knicks needed.

http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=rpbybq9

 

[Agent#00]

Jazz too soft handling Conley situation giving him infinite acclimation period. FO can't be grateful that he chose to play here. Just like everybody else he's an employee, he needs to be pushed.

 

[416Klawzz]

Conley will go down in history costing the jazz too much money, resources, team chemistry and a championship. but he's a nice guy and smiles alot.

 

[latin jazz]

I like when someone says correlation is not causation then points out a guy who has been playing poorly has a positive +- when he plays with our other best players. Not tryin to bust ya chops but Conley has been bad and the starting lineup is a ton better when you sub joe for Mike.

I’m close to calling it on mike... there’s a laundry list of things we give him as excuses or we point to things that say he’s actually been fine. He’s been **** compared to last year and compared to what we thought we’d get... everyone is like “he moved and that is hard so it makes people miss shots” but JC and Bojan are alright... he needs to play better soon and if not then let’s stop kidding ourselves.

No more “but he’s mike Conley” stuff... take the name off the stats and we’d be wondering if this scrub is an nba player. Play better or I hope to hell the front office finds a trade for something that works.

His play might be underwhelming ( it's obvious he is struggling) but he is not the main reason we either win or lose. Thats clearly my point. People use stats to show we lose when plays (I point other stats that show it's a wash). When you dig deeper at the reasons we lose each of those games, you find more glaring holes: lack of perimeter defense, poor rim protection from backup C, silly turnovers/poor execution, lack of bench production (early in the season), etc.

And the schedule was a piece of cake when Conley didn't play. That skew the numbers. So my point stands. He is playing poorly but as I said, correlation is not causation.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

He's underrated his whole career. It's not changing now. It is a little harder for him without a proper big for the pick and roll/pop game but he'll figure it out. He's a smart player.

I’m done with this narrative too. Gasol wasn’t there last year when Mike was going ham. He’s going against bench guys now... he’s getting good looks and isn’t making them.

I had hoped he would be more efficient than last year but lower volume... he’s been down in both ways. He’s having the worst season of his career but we all keep pointing to external factors.

Like if he’s an amazing player and Quins a genius how have we not figured this out yet? I think he went on a bit of a heater last year and maybe we are getting the regression.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

His play might be underwhelming ( it's obvious he is struggling) but he is not the main reason we either win or lose. Thats clearly my point. People use stats to show we lose when plays (I point other stats that show it's a wash). When you dig deeper at the reasons we lose each of those games, you find more glaring holes: lack of perimeter defense, poor rim protection from backup C, silly turnovers/poor execution, lack of bench production (early in the season), etc.

And the schedule was a piece of cake when Conley didn't play. That skew the numbers. So my point stands. He is playing poorly but as I said, correlation is not causation.

This is fair... Bradley and Niang are bigger holes than Mike... he was supposed to be the reason we win more though and instead it’s “hey he’s not the main problem”.

It just sucks. We had a lot of options this offseason and many would have worked out better than this. I would actively be trying to pivot at this point.

 

[latin jazz]

This is fair... Bradley and Niang are bigger holes than Mike... he was supposed to be the reason we win more though and instead it’s “hey he’s not the main problem”.

It just sucks. We had a lot of options this offseason and many would have worked out better than this. I would actively be trying to pivot at this point.

It sucks indeed.

Not sure what other options were available though (realistically). Tobias was overpaid (Bojan is better for what he gets), DLo is meh, Kemba is amazing but probably we were not on his list. Other rumored players were Niko and Portis. The thing is: had we acquired someone in that list in free agency, then Bojan would not be here. I have no idea what other trade possibilities were available (and we will never know)

 

[LogGrad98]

Poor execution is realistically the #1 reason almost every time we lose a game. However it cannot be denied that right now Conley is a net negative that goes beyond his individual stats. With Conley out we had hit a rhythm and were in our stride. Trying to integrate him is disruptive in and of itself. It's obvious Joe played better with Conley out.

But in the end it is on the players and the coach to figure out how to take care of the ball, initiate the offense, and actually play defense. It's like we have forgotten that having gobert means the perimeter defenders can be more aggressive, not that they can just let their guy blow by them because, hey Rudy's there, right? These last few games have been frustrating as hell to watch.