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Corbin and co are seriously risking the future of the team

Siro

Siro

Well-Known Member
Contributor
2018 Award Winner
At the moment, the Jazz are, at best, a borderline playoffs team. And despite the young guys incredible potential, they are hardly getting any quality minutes. Burks, a supremely talented lottery pick, is completely out of the rotation. Favors and Kanter play limited minutes. Their play time is always against subs, and always with the same underwhelming lineup. They have to endure the incompetence of CJ and Howard every game and they never share minutes with veteran bigs. If the wings felt generous enough to give up the ball, it's always 15 feet from the basket. They are never fed the ball down low, and they never run the pick and roll (except for CJ who gets the bigs into a moving screen several times a game so he can chuck).

The management is seriously hurting player development and messing up the team's chances in the future. And for what? The 10th place in the West and a mid-teen lottery pick?

In a recent interview, Burks indicated that he's perfectly fine being a spectator.

When was the last time Alec Burks went three consecutive games sitting on the bench and was forced to helplessly watch from the sideline?

High school, he said. Freshman season, to be exact. Burks was just getting his basketball career started at Grandview (Mo.). He was on the varsity team with his brother. And the younger Burks was glued to the pine.

Ever since then, Burks’ talent has elevated him to the hardwood.

But after earning three consecutive did-not-plays heading into Friday’s game against Oklahoma City, the 20-year-old Jazz guard said he’s as upbeat and focused as ever. His only thought: Be ready.

"You’ve got so many great veterans on this team; I’m learning something everyday from them," said Burks, who’s averaging 5.6 points and 1.6 rebounds during his rookie season, while shooting 40.4 percent from the field.

Jazz coach Tyrone Corbin was glad to hear Burks’ optimism hasn’t waned. And he put the rookie’s inability to recently crack the rotation on his own shoulders.

"It’s more me than him," Corbin said. "He deserves to get quality minutes on the floor. … He’s an extremely talented young guy. And he can help us now, but he’s going to help us in the long run, also."
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********! If he deserves the minutes, why isn't he getting them? Is Howard chuckfest really important enough to have warranted wasting ALMOST HALF A SEASON OF PLAYER DEVELOPMENT?

This trend is VERY worrisome. It is becoming a serious problem that needs to be addressed urgently.

FREE THE YOUNG GUYS.
 
I was actually thinking the same thing. Why is Howard playing over Burks? Is he in the long term plans of the franchise? Are we trying to up his trade value? He is only shooting 38% (not that everybody else is shooting much better) and we need shooters out there who can hit a shot. If we are going to miss the playoffs anyway this year (sorry to be a negative Nelly but with how many road games we have left and how the team has played lately I just don't see us in the playoffs), why waste time on Howard? Give the minutes to the future of the franchise, not washed up former all-stars.
 
I'm not too concerned, as of yet. I'm willing to wait and see if there is a trade before the deadline. If there is, then it becomes pretty obvious why the trade chips were getting playing time ahead of the young guys.
 
freakazoid said:
I'm not too concerned, as of yet. I'm willing to wait and see if there is a trade before the deadline. If there is, then it becomes pretty obvious why the trade chips were getting playing time ahead of the young guys.
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My thoughts exactly.

I was really hoping for better numbers out of Harris, just so we could trade him.

I've been happy with Al and Paul as whole, just getting their numbers up. Should make getting a solid 1 or 2 much easier.
 
Huge overreaction. Young uns are coming along fine. Anyone who was objective knew this was going to be a rough year with ups and downs. Next year will likely be the same. Problem is that some got over excited during a stretch where we got some W's with a very favorable schedule. Chill folks.
 
I am total agreement with the original post. OKC played the young guys right off the bat. Nick Collison was a starter and replaced as they added more young guys. OKC sucked the first year but now they are a true contender. There is no reason to play CJ and Howard considering neither will be with the team next year (please). Playing the young guys help them to develop but it also allows an organization to evaluate the player. OKC traded Green because they knew he wanted a big contract, by playing him they evaluated him and he showed enough to have value. If Burks sits for two year how do you know what he can or can't do beside the fact their is little market value for a guy who hasn't got off the bench.

Playing the vets who suck or have capped out their potential just waste a year of development.
 
Surely said:
I was actually thinking the same thing. Why is Howard playing over Burks? Is he in the long term plans of the franchise? Are we trying to up his trade value? He is only shooting 38% (not that everybody else is shooting much better) and we need shooters out there who can hit a shot. If we are going to miss the playoffs anyway this year (sorry to be a negative Nelly but with how many road games we have left and how the team has played lately I just don't see us in the playoffs), why waste time on Howard? Give the minutes to the future of the franchise, not washed up former all-stars.
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This same argument can be used for Millsap, Jefferson, Bell, Watson, Harris, (except we have no young PG's), CJ, and Tinsley. I'm all for developing the young guys, But at what cost? If you bench the vets they will complain and you may lose the locker room. I would love for them to find a trade with a few of these players though.
 
We are a discussion board in torment right now, but a tormented board that is in general agreement on what needs to happen.
Power to the posters! Sadly...........not gonna happen.
 
gregbroncs said:
This same argument can be used for Millsap, Jefferson, Bell, Watson, Harris, (except we have no young PG's), CJ, and Tinsley. I'm all for developing the young guys, But at what cost? If you bench the vets they will complain and you may lose the locker room. I would love for them to find a trade with a few of these players though.
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Millsap and Jefferson do not need to be benched. They are the Jazz' best offensive option, and they can teach the young guys a lot (but I'd like to see AJ traded sometime soon). There are 96 minutes available at the 4 and 5 positions. There is no reason to give Sap/AJ 65 of those. a 44/52 split would be ideal. A good chunk of those minutes should be with decent players. As far as the rest go, who cares? Bell is an okay starter and I don't mind him getting 20 minutes a game. Hayward has huge impact on games. But CJ and (specially) Howard are garbage. It blows my mind that Corbin thinks a lottery pick wasting away for half a season is a fair price to pay for Howard/CJ getting major minutes. If that causes them to flip out and cause problems, give them away for a second round pick.

And for those who gave me neg rep for "overreacting", I've yet to hear what part of my post you disagree with. Other than "everything will be fine" nonsense.
 
Playing Bell and Howard is important to the future of this team. How dare you question that!

If you are so smart how 'bout you try 'n coach 'n NBA team moran.
 
I agree with getting Burks some of Howard's & CJ's minutes.

Thing I do not get is Ty's rotation.

Last nite, Raja started out hotter than heck, yet was one of the 1st starterd to get removed. Made no sense, to me. He was perfect from the outside , including 3.

Then, he will return the starters with like 3-4 minutes left in the 2nd. Can't even break a sweat in that time, yet alone get in a flow.

Hayward is playing GREAT except for 3pt shooting.

He won't take them.

They sag off him 5 yards. He needs to start popping them. That will open up the middle.

I'm kind of an old school fan. I am not a big fan of letting other teams get ANY dunks (unless break away).

I like Hard fouls. Makes them think twice. We have the depth if foul troble happens and we are not that different thru 8-9.
 
I don't understand why Ty doesn't take some of Bell's minutes and give them to Burks. Ty's substitution pattern has me baffled lately. He acts like he doesn't have a game plan and there is no rhyme or reason to what he is doing.
 
Durant, Westbrook, and Harden were all top 4 picks, so they were a bit different than Burks' situation.

It did seem like Burks played well enough to get more time from the little I've seen.
 
Are you kidding? Burks has showed flashes of brilliance mashed up with total lack of understanding of team ball. Last 3 or 4 games he was on a short leash. In situations when early in the season he would drive to the basket now he makes a safe pass. He was totally out of game flow and when he played PG role he was plain awful and Ty benched him. Later in the season amount of out control play by Burks was over the tops, Ty kept yelling at him for dumb plays at the same time preaching aggressive play.

The kid still don't get it and needs to learn because now he totally ruins our half court offense whether you like that or not. He isn't ready and you don't want to have your veterans in the locker room talking between themselves how it sucks playing behind sucking rookie only because he is a 12th pick. It's bad for all including Burks.
 
zbone said:
Are you kidding? Burks has showed flashes of brilliance mashed up with total lack of understanding of team ball. Last 3 or 4 games he was on a short leash. In situations when early in the season he would drive to the basket now he makes a safe pass. He was totally out of game flow and when he played PG role he was plain awful and Ty benched him. Later in the season amount of out control play by Burks was over the tops, Ty kept yelling at him for dumb plays at the same time preaching aggressive play.

The kid still don't get it and needs to learn because now he totally ruins our half court offense whether you like that or not. He isn't ready and you don't want to have your veterans in the locker room talking between themselves how it sucks playing behind sucking rookie only because he is a 12th pick. It's bad for all including Burks.
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For the hell of it, let's you the benefit of the doubt that Burks hasn't played well enough to warrant PT - at least I think that's what you are trying to convey here. Ultimately there is no evidence to suggest the Jazz are a worse team when he plays significant minutes than when he doesn't play. You can use +/-, you can use the Jazz record in games that he plays significant minutes vs those that he doesn't and the only thing you will find is that the Jazz are probably better when he plays significant minutes - but understand, that is not my argument. My point is that their is nothing to suggest they are definitely worse when he plays more minutes. Burks can't be having so many DNP-CDs. That only speaks to Burks because his DNPs are the most egregious problem. Favors lack of big minutes is nearly as alarming.
 
seattlejazzfan said:
For the hell of it, let's you the benefit of the doubt that Burks hasn't played well enough to warrant PT - at least I think that's what you are trying to convey here. Ultimately there is no evidence to suggest the Jazz are a worse team when he plays significant minutes than when he doesn't play. You can use +/-, you can use the Jazz record in games that he plays significant minutes vs those that he doesn't and the only thing you will find is that the Jazz are probably better when he plays significant minutes - but understand, that is not my argument. My point is that their is nothing to suggest they are definitely worse when he plays more minutes. Burks can't be having so many DNP-CDs. That only speaks to Burks because his DNPs are the most egregious problem. Favors lack of big minutes is nearly as alarming.
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My point is we have 4 young players to develop. When you put Burks on the floor with our young bigs there is nothing on the floor resembling team play. Not once and not twice we had Earl-Burks-CJ/Howard-Favors-Kanter line up which played miserable basketball. I haven't looked into any stats before typing that but decided to check if my observations are correct.
Check out those stats:

https://www.82games.com/1112/1112UTA2.HTM
Unit Min Off Def +/- W L Win%
Watson-Burks-Howard-Favors-Kanter 33.7 1.09 1.02 -2 2 1 66.6
Watson-Burks-Miles-Favors-Kanter 28.8 0.91 1.13 -9 2 4 33.3

Our young bigs suck both defensively and offensively when they are together with Burks on the floor. That's playing again other teams scrubs.

At this point of his development he is hurting our young bigs. That's why I have no problems seeing him on the bench until he gets full offseason preparation cycle.

The stats also show that unit with Burks, Hayward, Millsap and Jefferson looks solid but this may very well be a fluke.
 
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