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Corbin not all to blame

I am unsure why everyone is looking so hard for someone to blame. We all knew this would be an ugly season, and it is. It might be more ugly than us homer fans hoped it would be, but ugly nonetheless. This is a pile of wet clay. Forming it into something that resembles a basketball team will take a LOT of effort and time. It will not happen overnight, and it will result in some butt ugly forms along the way. But we will get there. We are poised well to make moves next season and begin to rise back to a level of relevance in the NBA. Firing our coach right this second, trading away Hayward or whoever the current whipping-boy is as soon as possible, or releasing borderline D-leaguers will have so little impact on the current situation it isn't really even worth the time.
 
First of all it's not a club it's a machete you movie illiterate.

Second of all you do realize right now Favors averages more points, rebounds and shoots a better percentage than Big Al - without throwing a **** block into the rest of the offense.

And while Millsap averages 15 and 7, Kanter averages 14 and 7. Now I'm sure you'd counter that The Jazz would have a significantly better record because of the intangibles they brought like Big Al's lock down defense and Millsap's non-stop sulking; but sorry I'm still a bit skeptical.
 
l Abach l said:
Did you just respond to a comment you made? And I don't think this thread is stupid. I think that it's important to realize that our players just aren't good, even if we had a great coach. It's important to realize that our future plans may not involve the "core 4" and that we are better off trading them in pursuit of alternatives.
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Thank god your not the gm. Blow up the c4 is just dumb as hell, and yes this is a dumb thread! All we are missing is a star and a bench, and a pg. none of this has to do with the c4 being bad this is about the org. Leaving the c4 out stranded on an island so to speak, but by all means lets cut bait with the c4 and become the clippers of the last 25-30 years.

Ya! Great thread.

This is about a horrible coach who doesn't have a clue and a young c4 with talent surrounded by untalented players with no future.
 
Thee jazz fan said:
Thank god your not the gm. Blow up the c4 is just dumb as hell, and yes this is a dumb thread! All we are missing is a star and a bench, and a pg. none of this has to do with the c4 being bad this is about the org. Leaving the c4 out stranded on an island so to speak, but by all means lets cut bait with the c4 and become the clippers of the last 25-30 years.
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Take off the Homer glasses and realize that the C4 isn't untouchable. We're 1-13! No one is safe on the roster.
 
l Abach l said:
Take off the Homer glasses and realize that the C4 isn't untouchable. We're 1-13! No one is safe on the roster.
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Take off your idiot glasses!

Do you not see how young these guys are. They were thrown into a fire this year with Lucas and Tinsley as there pg's with Jefferson and Marvin as the main support players around the c4. Do you not see their potential?
 
Thee jazz fan said:
Take off your idiot glasses!

Do you not see how young these guys are. They were thrown into a fire this year with Lucas and Tinsley as there pg's with Jefferson and Marvin as the main support players around the c4. Do you not see their potential?
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C4:
Burks - No potential to be anything more than an average role player. If i'm wrong about that potential, please tell me. What do you see in Burks that is so mind blowing that he isn't expendable?
Favors - almost ZERO progression in his offensive game so far this season. Defense potential is a poor man's Tyson Chandler
Kanter - Has trouble on D. I've been impressed by some Offensive tools, but not any more potential than Drummond or other young bigs in the league
Hayward - Potential to be... 3rd option on a championship team?
 
l Abach l said:
C4:
Burks - No potential to be anything more than an average role player. If i'm wrong about that potential, please tell me. What do you see in Burks that is so mind blowing that he isn't expendable?
Favors - almost ZERO progression in his offensive game so far this season. Defense potential is a poor man's Tyson Chandler
Kanter - Has trouble on D. I've been impressed by some Offensive tools, but not any more potential than Drummond or other young bigs in the league
Hayward - Potential to be... 3rd option on a championship team?
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I think you're looking at this all wrong. Think asset management.
Burks- contract 2 years- Is this his best season left on his contact? Probably not(he will likely be worth more later)
Favors- 4 years - Is this his best season left on his contact? NO
Kanter- 2 years - Is this his best season left on his contact? NO
Hayward- Final Year- Will we be able to lock him up with positive value left over? Leaning No but he is RFA so a sign and trade is still available to us.

Right now more likely trades include
Marvin Williams
Richard Jefferson
Brandon Rush after he comes back and has had a few good weeks.


Ps I would really like to see Hayward come back to play along side our new rook next year and since we are building through the draft we can afford to overpay him.(only a little though and front loaded)
 
franklin said:
Whitewashing your own history much? You've criticized Corbin since five games into his career and have never let up. You never gave him a chance. You always thought you knew more than Coach and have bitched about substitution patterns since day one, never conceding when playing time for the youngsters vindicated his choice of vets. Truth is, you wanted to see the youth and that's all that mattered. It's not about Corbin, at least be honest about it.
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Franklin, you are totally irrational in your defense of Corbin. Not once have I ever seen you respond to any of the many specific criticisms of him. Could you tell me what he does well?

1. Does he use his timeouts well?
2. Does he prepare his players well? Do they seem motivated?
3. Does he take advantage of match-ups or does the other team do that to us?
4. Is he good at calling plays?
5. Does he get his guys to play good defense?
6. Does he reward players when they play well and give them more PT?
7. Does he ride the hot hand?
8. Does he tell his players anything useful besides playing hard?

To me he fails at all of these.

But he does one thing well: Saying it's just one game each time we lose.
 
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LogGrad98 said:
I am unsure why everyone is looking so hard for someone to blame. We all knew this would be an ugly season, and it is. It might be more ugly than us homer fans hoped it would be, but ugly nonetheless. This is a pile of wet clay. Forming it into something that resembles a basketball team will take a LOT of effort and time. It will not happen overnight, and it will result in some butt ugly forms along the way. But we will get there. We are poised well to make moves next season and begin to rise back to a level of relevance in the NBA. Firing our coach right this second, trading away Hayward or whoever the current whipping-boy is as soon as possible, or releasing borderline D-leaguers will have so little impact on the current situation it isn't really even worth the time.
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I think the clay metaphor emphasises why we need to be questioning whether to keep ty around. He is the one that is meant to be moulding this clay into a beautiful championship vase, but i just don't see anything that makes me think he can do that.

And if someone could do a gif or an image of the clay sculpting scene from the film ghost with sloan behind ty, that would be great.
 
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franklin said:
Whitewashing your own history much? You've criticized Corbin since five games into his career and have never let up. You never gave him a chance. You always thought you knew more than Coach and have bitched about substitution patterns since day one, never conceding when playing time for the youngsters vindicated his choice of vets. Truth is, you wanted to see the youth and that's all that mattered. It's not about Corbin, at least be honest about it.
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Yeah that's me. That's exactly what I said. Especially here after in June of 2011 (a bit more than 5 games into his career, if you know how to count):

https://jazzfanz.com/showthread.php?6250-Can-Ty-Corbin-get-us-a-ring/page2&highlight=corbin+fired

I didn't get a real good read on Ty one way or the other. I happen to like him personally so I hope he succeeds, but I really want to see what he does in a full season or two. I sort of liked that he wasn't afraid to bench starters who were sucking it up.

So great ****ing memory there. And I still won't concede that his playing vets has vindicated his choice over playing the youth, especially the vets like Josh Howard and Earl Watson and Roger Bell, all who sucked massively here.
 
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Quick search of "Corbin" in ascending order by date, first result:

Nate505 said:
I'd like to see Corbin with some different pieces (gasp, maybe some more talented pieces) and some time to prepare before writing his obituary as a coach. His sub patters are irritating but he does seem to learn from them a bit quicker than Jerry did.
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https://jazzfanz.com/showthread.php...not-good-coach&p=129042&viewfull=1#post129042

In other words, you know how to manage an NBA team better than Tyrone Corbin and Jerry Sloan who Just. Would. Not. Learn.

It's your history, your avatar.
 
Corbin may not be all to blame, but he sure as **** isn't helping things. If he's made one positive impact on this team, I've failed to see it.
 
The Jazz's young players are just limited offensively. They can run, rebound and defend well enough when properly motivated. They just struggle to score the ball. There's no one to run the offense through.

Pick up a guy like Randle to run pick-and-rolls with Burke, tell Hayward to camp out on the wing, tell Favors to crash the offensive glass, and add another 2-way perimeter player--then we've got something. Burks might even work as that other 2-way perimeter player. The problem is that guys are trying to do a bit more than they're capable of.
 
franklin said:
Quick search of "Corbin" in ascending order by date, first result:



https://jazzfanz.com/showthread.php...not-good-coach&p=129042&viewfull=1#post129042

In other words, you know how to manage an NBA team better than Tyrone Corbin and Jerry Sloan who Just. Would. Not. Learn.

It's your history, your avatar.
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Thanks for proving my point, which was that in his first year I did not "never give him a chance." I specifically said that I'd like to give him time to prepare and some different pieces before I write him off as a coach. Yes, I did bitch about his substitution patters because they sucked, and have continued to suck in his career. Though as I've found out later it's not quite about rigid substitution patterns as it is about overly playing vets for some dumb reason. Criticizing one of his coaching methods does not equate to never giving him a chance. Yet they were better than Sloan's and still are frankly. That was the biggest problem with Sloan, and I was hardly alone in making that observation. His substitution patterns were absolutely rigid, and I don't believe that is a good coaching philosophy. Others may like that philosophy. The defense I heard of it many times was that it lets players get into a routine and know when they are ready to play. That's one side of it, but the other side is that you take out a player whose playing well based on nothing but the time on the clock, thus killing his momentum. I believe the latter side has more merit, and so do a ton of other NBA head coaches throughout history.

If that equates to "I know how to manage a team better than Sloan or Corbin" then I'd say your grasp of the English language sucks donkey *********. It's an opinion about one of many coaching philosophies. That's it.
 
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