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Game Thread Dec 22, 2022 07:00PM MT: Jazz vs. Wizards

Added to Calendar: 12-22-22

It's crazy to me people are worried about a player being too similar to Lauri. I would gladly take 2 Lauri's in our starting lineup. **** it give me a starting lineup of 5 Lauri's. Backups can give us different lineups.
 
Ron Mexico said:
It's crazy to me people are worried about a player being too similar to Lauri. I would gladly take 2 Lauri's in our starting lineup. **** it give me a starting lineup of 5 Lauri's. Backups can give us different lineups.
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Same here... I do not get the worry of Lauri losing too much role and that he could not go against pf's at least in offense - he would not post up that much but thats not what he is doing even now that much. Then again his driving is better against bigger bodies with slower feet than a lot of small forwards having. We would throw Kuzma on bigger ones in D and Lauri would take the perimeter.

That said I would of course want the other forward have a bit better outside shooting than Kuzma is having.
 
Tremendous Upside said:
I wouldn't call Collins an "off ball player". He wants more touches since he's been sitting in the corner lately (which, in the modern NBA, is what a 4 does if they can shoot at all). I presume he wants the screener/roller role in a PnR centric offense. Collins is a play finisher, like Lauri.

On the Jazz, bringing him into the starting lineup would push Markkanen into the spacer role, since Lauri is clearly the better shooter.

IMO these two overlap way too much. If we keep Lauri in his freelancing role, Collins needs to space, aaand he's right back in the same situation he wanted to escape in Atlanta. He won't like that.
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Oh so you suddenly transform Collins to a different player he is? Man he has ALWAYS been off ball playing PF and seemingly happy to play that way. Only place he has ever spoken out is in team meetings, one of which was leaked last year to the press. He isn't whining his way out of Atlanta... they are trying to dump his salary to stay under luxury tax since he doesnt fit to what they do anymore and cant produce to justify his salary in their crappy (guard iso) "system".

Collins wouldnt push Lauri anywhere. He cannot play with the ball in his hands and doesnt need it.. like Kuzma does. Why is this so hard to see? One has 44 touches per game, and passes the ball 11 times more than receives passes... while the other one has 60 touches and is -9 on passes made vs passes received.

Plus if you just pay one visit to Atlanta fan boards, you will see that they love his defense, rebounding and effort, and also consider him a glue locker room guy. The fans are not looking to get rid of him... the FO is.
 
I have no idea how you guys think Kuzma and JC can exist in the same team with Lauri, and still think Lauri will get the same (or even more) touches. I am just baffled by this. Makes absolutely no sense.

Its just like Atlanta who traded for DJM and already had Trae. Or Brooklyn last year with KD, Kyrie and Harden. What in the world made people think they can be effective? Did they expect NBA to make a rule change to add a second ball to the game?
 
Ron Mexico said:
Basketball reference says he is the worst offensive rating on our team besides bolmaro. His defense is a higher but his net rating would still be -23, which is one of the worst on the team. Most stats are showing he sucks and he definitely looks like he sucks when pretty much anyone watches him. His effort is very low and his shooting is off. Players regularly go after him on defense. His VORP, BPM, WS, WS/48, TS%, PER, and pretty much every other important stat show he is the worst on our team next to Bolmaro who isnt really playing, just like he shouldnt be. I am not sure why you are clining to this one stat. Simone isnt great but he is pretty much better at every major stat including these. Our team would be better with him taking Gay's minutes. That isnt even getting to the morale part of the team. Its hard to play with a vet who is really lazy on the court and doesnt seem to care.

I only assume we are playing him because we gave him some guarantee about minutes when he signed and are trying to keep his minutes going to help with a trade later or just general respect for a vet on the team to help with our image to other players and agents.
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He has a different "net rating" in mind than you do. I wouldn't take the BR's net rating too seriously, in any case, but it's largely based on individual stats. He's referring to net rating in terms of +/- (how the team performs with him on the floor), which is arguably the most important stat (though vulnerable to small sample size, teammate effects, opponent lineup rotations). Here Gay is blowing everyone away. The Jazz have scored nearly 15 points more than the opponent/100 possessions with Gay on the floor. The next closest rotation player is Markkanen, with the Jazz outscoring opponents with him on the floor by 5 points/100 possessions. The Jazz are 22 points worse/100 possessions than the opponent when Simone is on the floor.

Now there's no guarantee that these numbers will hold in the future. In fact, I think they're unlikely to do so. But there's also no denying that the Jazz have done well with Gay on the floor this year, so far.

(By the way, those who attribute this stat to teammate effects, as I've seen some try to do, are still not accounting for the facts that Gay is both higher than all other teammates and also considerably higher. It doesn't seem logical to argue that your teammates are carrying you if you end up way higher than any of them.)
 
HermanG said:
I do. If we trade for Kuzma we gotta trade away JC. Otherwise its Kuzma and JC on wings and Lauri loses his free role and has to play 4.

Cant have Kuzma play off ball away from Conley. He has to play wing for sure. As does JC.

I dont know how Kuzma + Lauri wings would work though. My guess is great offensively, but defending true guards would become an issue.
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I think lauri would be awesome as a 4


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idiot said:
He has a different "net rating" in mind than you do. I wouldn't take the BR's net rating too seriously, in any case, but it's largely based on individual stats. He's referring to net rating in terms of +/- (how the team performs with him on the floor), which is arguably the most important stat (though vulnerable to small sample size, teammate effects, opponent lineup rotations). Here Gay is blowing everyone away. The Jazz have scored nearly 15 points more than the opponent/100 possessions with Gay on the floor. The next closest rotation player is Markkanen, with the Jazz outscoring opponents with him on the floor by 5 points/100 possessions. The Jazz are 22 points worse/100 possessions than the opponent when Simone is on the floor.

Now there's no guarantee that these numbers will hold in the future. In fact, I think they're unlikely to do so. But there's also no denying that the Jazz have done well with Gay on the floor this year, so far.

(By the way, those who attribute this stat to teammate effects, as I've seen some try to do, are still not accounting for the facts that Gay is both higher than all other teammates and also considerably higher. It doesn't seem logical to argue that your teammates are carrying you if you end up way higher than any of them.)
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The reason people are attributing this stat to teammate effects are doing so because gay doesnt do anything well and does many thngs horribly. He isnt a good defender, he has no hustle (you never see gay on the floor for example. Dude absolutely wont dive for a loose ball), he cant shoot, doesnt get to the free throw line, isnt a playmaker, isnt a good rebounder. He shoots 34% feom the field, 24% from three and 69% from the line. He is old, lazy, and sucky.
What is that he is good at?


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I watched this game with the question is Kuzma worth the Max? I came away with the answer of maybe. I'm not sure he would consider coming here, but it seems possible.

Kuzma has done a nice job of rounding out his game. He's a decent defender, rebounder, and passer now to go along with a better decision maker and more efficient on offense. I like him, but not sure I want to tie up a bunch of cap space on him.
 
HermanG said:
Exactly what Jim Boylen thought before he put Lauri to 4 where he started withering away.
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Ya but boylen is a different human than hardy and the bulls and cavs are different teams than the jazz.
I have seen him play the 4 this very year on this very team and look great doing so.


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