Disgruntled Kessler?

[Saint Cy of JFC]

It always surprised me that so many folks here think that Kessler did not get enough minutes. He finished the season with 23.3 and the only reason why he did not reach 24-25 minutes was because he left his last game early with injury and did not play in the last games of the season when young players were given heavy minutes.

Lets compare him with other good but not great centers in the league: Valanciunus - 23 min, Gafford - 24 min, Hartenstein - 25 min, Capela - 26 min, Poeltl - 26 min, Zubac - 26 min. Kessler is right there with them in terms of both the impact and minutes. To get 30 minutes or more as a center you should be among the very best in the league: only 8 players played that much this season. Kessler is getting exactly the minutes he deserves.

People complained that Keyonte is the golden boy and getting way more playing time than he should - and he got only 27mpg, 3 more minutes than Kessler.

People are delusional.

 

[TheGoldStandard]

I actually have inside information. Walker was joking about me with Hardy’s wife and that’s why there’s a rift.

It was actually a joke that Hardy's wife was looser than Hearsky's mom. And that crosses the line...

 

[Bawse Dawg]

It always surprised me that so many folks here think that Kessler did not get enough minutes. He finished the season with 23.3 and the only reason why he did not reach 24-25 minutes was because he left his last game early with injury and did not play in the last games of the season when young players were given heavy minutes.

Lets compare him with other good but not great centers in the league: Valanciunus - 23 min, Gafford - 24 min, Hartenstein - 25 min, Capela - 26 min, Poeltl - 26 min, Zubac - 26 min. Kessler is right there with them in terms of both the impact and minutes. To get 30 minutes or more as a center you should be among the very best in the league: only 8 players played that much this season. Kessler is getting exactly the minutes he deserves.

People complained that Keyonte is the golden boy and getting way more playing time than he should - and he got only 27mpg, 3 more minutes than Kessler.

Good post, putting my pre conceived thoughts in their place.

I guess my opinion is based more on vibes or just how it feels? Maybe also just coming to terms with what was once thought of as a nice piece really just being a JAG at best.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

Good post, putting my pre conceived thoughts in their place.

I guess my opinion is based more on vibes or just how it feels? Maybe also just coming to terms with what was once thought of as a nice piece really just being a JAG at best.

It's because a lot of dumb people on this board hyped Walker up to be on Gobert's level.

 

[fishonjazz]

It always surprised me that so many folks here think that Kessler did not get enough minutes. He finished the season with 23.3 and the only reason why he did not reach 24-25 minutes was because he left his last game early with injury and did not play in the last games of the season when young players were given heavy minutes.

Lets compare him with other good but not great centers in the league: Valanciunus - 23 min, Gafford - 24 min, Hartenstein - 25 min, Capela - 26 min, Poeltl - 26 min, Zubac - 26 min. Kessler is right there with them in terms of both the impact and minutes. To get 30 minutes or more as a center you should be among the very best in the league: only 8 players played that much this season. Kessler is getting exactly the minutes he deserves.

People complained that Keyonte is the golden boy and getting way more playing time than he should - and he got only 27mpg, 3 more minutes than Kessler.

Its more about giving Collins more minutes than kessler when we are tanking and trying to develop young guys for the long term. Also about the jazz being the worst defensive team in the league. Also about how the team seemed to play better with kessler on the court at the 5 than collins. (collins was 20th out of 21 players for the jazz in plus/minus for instance. Keyonte was the only player who was worse. BPM had kessler 5th and collins 8th. Kessler had a higher PER. Kessler had a higher VORP. Kessler with more win shares per 48.)

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

Its more about giving Collins more minutes than kessler when we are tanking and trying to develop young guys for the long term. Also about the jazz being the worst defensive team in the league. Also about how the team seemed to play better with kessler on the court at the 5 than collins. (collins was 20th out of 21 players for the jazz in plus/minus for instance. Keyonte was the only player who was worse. BPM had kessler 5th and collins 8th. Kessler had a higher PER. Kessler had a higher VORP. Kessler with more win shares per 48.)

And its all of this plus the guy is establishing his value and trying to get paid... so yanking him around may be seen as messing with his money. Its also hard when you see Keyonte struggling and them living with it and having a high tolerance vs how he and others might be treated.

I'm sure there is also a little friction between front office, Hardy, and the Collins situation that has to be managed. Like if Will decides to bench Collins and play him 20 minutes that likely HAS to work well or Ainge and the front office are like "what are you doing to our $80M man". Walker wasn't so good that they couldn't ignore him though (like Collin was) so he definitely gets a heap of the blame.

 

[jazznik]

Its more about giving Collins more minutes than kessler when we are tanking and trying to develop young guys for the long term. Also about the jazz being the worst defensive team in the league. Also about how the team seemed to play better with kessler on the court at the 5 than collins. (collins was 20th out of 21 players for the jazz in plus/minus for instance. Keyonte was the only player who was worse. BPM had kessler 5th and collins 8th. Kessler had a higher PER. Kessler had a higher VORP. Kessler with more win shares per 48.)

I think that you may be a bit too focused on Kessler and stats. Stats do not capture everything and Kessler is also not unique in having high advanced stats and providing a lot of defense. The same is true for Poeltl (26 MPG), Zubac ( 26 MPG), Hartenstein (25 MPG), Valanciunas (23 MPG) and many other centers. You may think that there is a league-wide conspiracy in denying highly productive centers their obviously-deserved 30+ minutes of playing time. Or, you can come to the conclusion that coaches learned from their experience and collectively decided that good traditional centers have the best impact on the game if you play them 24-27 minutes. Unless they are at least on the level of Lopez, Gobert or Porzingis. Or, unless your team is as horrible as Detroit and plays their young guys into the ground not caring about anything.

 

[fishonjazz]

I think that you may be a bit too focused on Kessler and stats. Stats do not capture everything and Kessler is also not unique in having high advanced stats and providing a lot of defense. The same is true for Poeltl (26 MPG), Zubac ( 26 MPG), Hartenstein (25 MPG), Valanciunas (23 MPG) and many other centers. You may think that there is a league-wide conspiracy in denying highly productive centers their obviously-deserved 30+ minutes of playing time. Or, you can come to the conclusion that coaches learned from their experience and collectively decided that good traditional centers have the best impact on the game if you play them 24-27 minutes. Unless they are at least on the level of Lopez, Gobert or Porzingis. Or, unless your team is as horrible as Detroit and plays their young guys into the ground not caring about anything.

Could be. Could be that Hardy should have been playing kessler more too. But maybe playing Kessler more would have made our draft pick worse. Idk
We all have opinions.

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[sip]

I think that you may be a bit too focused on Kessler and stats. Stats do not capture everything and Kessler is also not unique in having high advanced stats and providing a lot of defense. The same is true for Poeltl (26 MPG), Zubac ( 26 MPG), Hartenstein (25 MPG), Valanciunas (23 MPG) and many other centers. You may think that there is a league-wide conspiracy in denying highly productive centers their obviously-deserved 30+ minutes of playing time. Or, you can come to the conclusion that coaches learned from their experience and collectively decided that good traditional centers have the best impact on the game if you play them 24-27 minutes. Unless they are at least on the level of Lopez, Gobert or Porzingis. Or, unless your team is as horrible as Detroit and plays their young guys into the ground not caring about anything.

Those guys aren't development players though. Kessler is a 2nd year guy who by Hardy's own words needs as much court time as possible yet he limited his minutes. That makes no sense when you consider the fact that we were totally focused on player development after the trade deadline.

 

[jazznik]

I don't want to dump on Kessler - I actually like him a lot and want him on the team. But he does have many shortcomings besides not having a 3-pointer and much of offense. Collins is far from being the ideal centers but... Kessler can't pass. Kessler can't grab a defensive rebound and dribble to start a fast break. Walter is afraid to get fouled so he does not fight for the offensive rebounds with the same ferocity as Collins. He also cannot push and make something happen when others struggle. Walter requires a skilled point guard to set him up with precise passes. Finally, he sometimes has trouble maintaining the intensity and disappears for long stretches.

In short, Kessler is a tough fit for many lineups from the perspective of a coach. You can plug Collins in many more situations and matchups. Coaches love versatile players. Of course, coaches can also build effective schemes for players with severe limitations, but you better be absolutely amazing at what you are good so that they may start assembling the team around you and develop specific game plan to hide your bad. Is Kessler that amazing?

 

[SoberasHotRod]

The off season just started and it's already unbearable.

 

[sip]

I don't want to dump on Kessler - I actually like him a lot and want him on the team. But he does have many shortcomings besides not having a 3-pointer and much of offense. Collins is far from being the ideal centers but... Kessler can't pass. Kessler can't grab a defensive rebound and dribble to start a fast break. Walter is afraid to get fouled so he does not fight for the offensive rebounds with the same ferocity as Collins. He also cannot push and make something happen when others struggle. Walter requires a skilled point guard to set him up with precise passes. Finally, he sometimes has trouble maintaining the intensity and disappears for long stretches.

In short, Kessler is a tough fit for many lineups from the perspective of a coach. You can plug Collins in many more situations and matchups. Coaches love versatile players. Of course, coaches can also build effective schemes for players with severe limitations, but you better be absolutely amazing at what you are good so that they may start assembling the team around you and develop specific game plan to hide your bad. Is Kessler that amazing?

You basically just described a young player that needs consistent minutes to get experience and gain confidence. Now if you are competing for a championship you may not want to commit those minutes because growing pains will cost you but for a rebuilding team those growing pains should have been embraced.