Do you care about how Utah and Mormons are perceived?

[Sardines]

Did CNN, ABC, the View tell you this?

I don't watch broadcast television. I am under 70.

 

[LogGrad98]

When was the last time we had a moral president? To me woke culture goes against all of my beliefs about the family. In my eyes the #1 thing it does is destroy the family with is central to my beliefs. It’s hard to really know what to believe because Fox says one thing and CNN says another. Family is about as important as it gets to the church. There was no way I was going to vote for someone as woke as Harris. I don’t agree with a lot that Trump has done over the years but his beliefs imo are more in line with my beliefs. What I see is that his family loves and respects him. I don’t believe he’s a particularly honest man but I can’t remember the last honest president.

If a none woke democrat had been running there’s a chance I would’ve voted hor that particular individual. I looked at policy in this case I took what I perceived as the lesser of two evils I’m not someone that votes, straight Democrat or Republican, I think of who I believe is the best man for the job and go with that.

So woke culture is worse that adulterous culture? Gay is worse than repeatedly cheating on spouses? Somehow a full revival of Nazi ideology is preferable to gay people, that's what you're saying? Remember you voted for the guy that put a guy who did this into one of the most inner-circle posts he has. I guess you'll fit in, Nazis hated gays too.

 

[LogGrad98]

I’m definitely in a quiet but very much growing minority of 30-40 year olds who are into their careers but aren’t happy with the current policies or leadership of the church. If you look just in my ward (my street) you have 5 families in similar situations as my wife and I. We don’t like:

* Trump and the corruption and bigotry that many fellow members either indulge in or ignore. It probably helps that the majority of us served foreign missions and see immigrants as fellow children of god, not rapists and murderers.
Oh, and we all believe in vaccines. Believe it or not but this has become a major dividing issue.

* We want greater transparency with finances and history. Couldn’t we discuss openly some of the top concerns or histories rather than week after week regurgitate conference talks?

* We want greater opportunities for women and girls. It’s silly that a 12 year old boy has more respect and power than our wives who are college educated and run their own businesses.
Also, GARMENTS. This is a major issue, especially among women.

* We don’t agree with the traditional families. Sure, having both parents is awesome. But many families with single parents, grandparent, or LGBT parents are awesome too. And it’s dumb how traditionally we’ve dumped all the baby stuff onto women. Men can and should change diapers too. Just like women can be breadwinners. The Family Proclamation was highly influenced by the southern Baptist similar document reaffirming their views on traditional nuclear families and resistance to gay unions and marriages in the mid 1990s.

* We want the church to be a greater force for good. It’s got billions, so donating a paltry few million here and there is a drop in the bucket. Personally, I’d rather have the church focus on building homeless shelters than building more malls and high end real estate (city creek anyone?).

* One topic i haven’t discussed with neighbors due to its sensitivity is temple construction. It’s great. But should it be the priority? Similar to homeless shelters, could our church focus on providing food, child care, and other services for the living rather than focusing on ordinances for the dead? Think about how many child care centers could be built in growing communities in Saratoga and Eagle Mtn rather than a temple that sits empty most of the time? With all due respect to the handful of retired boomers who sit in temples during most of the day while the rest of us work our regular jobs…

Many of these issues are things I’ve discussed with fellow neighbors and friends who are LDS and we’ve had great dialogue. If some of these shows inspire others to look deeper into church topics that interest them or prompt them to try to make the church more inclusive, I think that’s a good thing. We should concern ourselves with what others think with the caveat that we don’t jeopardize our values for popularity. Which, sadly, is how I’ve seen us act in many ways since the religious right became married to the GOP

My wife and I took a hard look at the Church, starting with learning to accept an LGBTQ child and attempting to "debunk" the CES letter in discussions with another of our kids, and ending in a support group for sexual abuse survivors in the church who saw the church unequivocally protect and in a few cases actually "promote" their abusers (Bishops who became stake presidents, etc.), leaving them in positions to abuse others. We had the same misgivings you did as well, almost to the letter. We have since left the cult entirely. Some of our family understands, but of course the heavily indoctrinated ones won't even discuss it since discussion about such things gets you excommunicated, since they know that shining a light on the darkness will lead others to leave as well. Abuse children in your official capacity in the church? It's ok we have lawyers for that. Make a few posts on social media questioning anything about the Church? Get called into a court to discuss your apostasy with the stake president. All they care about is PR and keeping the money flowing.

 

[LogGrad98]

I guess bottom line for me is no I don't care. I'm fact I'm worried about my friends and family still stuck in the cult and the degree of outright lying the church will engage in to keep them in check. Just go look at how often the intro to the book of Mormon is changed. Every time they find more archeological evidence that disproves the book's claims about the Americas for example they change it. It went from the book being entirely the record of the history of the native Americans to the people in the book being the primary ancestors of the native Americans, to being "among" the ancestors, to no mention of it at all since the dna evidence has all but proven beyond a doubt there were no middle eastern ancestors at all, they were all actually of Asian descent. They even removed the part that used to read that the book of Mormon was the most correct of all books ever written. The emperor's clothes are being exposed in the information era and won't long stand reasonable and logical scrutiny. And the fact that they still exploit people for monetary gain, including people I know who can little afford it, means to me that it is destructive at best. I've come to personally believe that all religions are nothing but a detriment to society. It absolves people of the need to develop a sense of morality that comes from within and what is best for society and instead allows them to hang their hat on external beliefs and promises of a hereafter. It makes it a hell of a lot easier for a piece of **** like Trump to make inroads since the brainwashing is already in place. He just has to piggy-back off it, and he has a ready-made group of people who believe they were "chosen", so they have no compunction at all putting themselves and their made-up beliefs before the needs of others. The net results of religion are negative in the extreme, even if pockets of religious folks are still trying to do the best they can to be good people. As a mass movement, it has brought us closer to fascism than any other movement in the West since WWII. By their fruits ye shall know them indeed.

 

[Thee Jazz Fan]

Ummm you can wa

I don't watch broadcast television. I am under 70.

Ummm all those things are on other streaming services.

 

[Rubashov]

When was the last time we had a moral president? To me woke culture goes against all of my beliefs about the family. In my eyes the #1 thing it does is destroy the family with is central to my beliefs. It’s hard to really know what to believe because Fox says one thing and CNN says another. Family is about as important as it gets to the church. There was no way I was going to vote for someone as woke as Harris. I don’t agree with a lot that Trump has done over the years but his beliefs imo are more in line with my beliefs. What I see is that his family loves and respects him. I don’t believe he’s a particularly honest man but I can’t remember the last honest president.

If a none woke democrat had been running there’s a chance I would’ve voted hor that particular individual. I looked at policy in this case I took what I perceived as the lesser of two evils I’m not someone that votes, straight Democrat or Republican, I think of who I believe is the best man for the job and go with that.

Obama? I mean the dude is probably a war criminal due to his extensive use of drone strikes and the associated civilian deaths but I mean in terms of his personal morality? I think he gets a pass, strikes me as a fairly decent family man. In terms of unimpeachably decent? Jimmy Carter, one of gods great gentlemen.

 

[Thee Jazz Fan]

So woke culture is worse that adulterous culture? Gay is worse than repeatedly cheating on spouses? Somehow a full revival of Nazi ideology is preferable to gay people, that's what you're saying? Remember you voted for the guy that put a guy who did this into one of the most inner-circle posts he has. I guess you'll fit in, Nazis hated gays too.

View attachment 17793

Please show me the Nazi ideology. And please don’t refer to that picture I know it’s been doctors. It’s a picture from a video that has nothing to do with the Hitler gesture. And by the way it’s the same people who attended the inauguration who smiled and clapped for Trump. The very people who said he was no different from Hitler. So if they truly believe that rhetoric why are they even there having a good time? They are either brainwashed or nazi’s. Which is it?

 

[LogGrad98]

Please show me the Nazi ideology. And please don’t refer to that picture I know it’s been doctors. It’s a picture from a video that has nothing to do with the Hitler gesture. And by the way it’s the same people who attended the inauguration who smiled and clapped for Trump. The very people who said he was no different from Hitler. So if they truly believe that rhetoric why are they even there having a good time? They are either brainwashed or nazi’s. Which is it?

As soon as you said it has been doctored i knew you were fully brainwashed. You can watch the video yourself. I watched it basically as it happened. If your are really that invested in the conspiracies you have no hope. Many people that had worked with Trump said he plans to enact fascist ideology, which is the foundation of Naziism. He has already started by trying to rewrite the Constitution through executive order and destroy birthright citizenship. I'm sad for you that you are so blinded. I hope you choose to start seeing reality for what it is and not what the conspiracy theorists tell you it is.

 

[fishonjazz]

When was the last time we had a moral president? To me woke culture goes against all of my beliefs about the family. In my eyes the #1 thing it does is destroy the family with is central to my beliefs. It’s hard to really know what to believe because Fox says one thing and CNN says another. Family is about as important as it gets to the church. There was no way I was going to vote for someone as woke as Harris. I don’t agree with a lot that Trump has done over the years but his beliefs imo are more in line with my beliefs. What I see is that his family loves and respects him. I don’t believe he’s a particularly honest man but I can’t remember the last honest president.

If a none woke democrat had been running there’s a chance I would’ve voted hor that particular individual. I looked at policy in this case I took what I perceived as the lesser of two evils I’m not someone that votes, straight Democrat or Republican, I think of who I believe is the best man for the job and go with that.

Who said anything about having a moral president.

I simply think it's extremely hypocritical to fervently support (worship/idolize) the least Christ like candidate of all time.


We have never previously had a president who had a fake university, stole from charity, cheated on all three of his wives, slept with a porn star and paid her to keep quiet, had dozens of sexual assault accusations (including a conviction) etc. and I'm leaving a lot off this list. (According to trump avoiding STD's was his personal Vietnam). We have also never had a presidential candidate that you and your religion love as much as this one.
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[fishonjazz]

When was the last time we had a moral president? To me woke culture goes against all of my beliefs about the family. In my eyes the #1 thing it does is destroy the family with is central to my beliefs. It’s hard to really know what to believe because Fox says one thing and CNN says another. Family is about as important as it gets to the church. There was no way I was going to vote for someone as woke as Harris. I don’t agree with a lot that Trump has done over the years but his beliefs imo are more in line with my beliefs. What I see is that his family loves and respects him. I don’t believe he’s a particularly honest man but I can’t remember the last honest president.

If a none woke democrat had been running there’s a chance I would’ve voted hor that particular individual. I looked at policy in this case I took what I perceived as the lesser of two evils I’m not someone that votes, straight Democrat or Republican, I think of who I believe is the best man for the job and go with that.

I see. Woke culture destroys families. But cheating on your wives with pornstars doesn't destroy the family in your eyes and is central to your beliefs. Gotcha.

Thank you for proving my point.

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[fishonjazz]

Please show me the Nazi ideology. And please don’t refer to that picture I know it’s been doctors. It’s a picture from a video that has nothing to do with the Hitler gesture.

I can longer interact with someone who is this indoctrinated with propaganda.
Was nice knowing ya before trump became your God. I truly hope you see the light someday.

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[BabyPeterzz]

I love my Mormon friends and family, as misguided as they are.

THEY TOTALLY CARE SO HARD!

Appearances are a pillar of modern Mormon life now. Keeping up with the Jones’ on Swig! Just watch the TV shows. They’re like a mirror of their behavior amplified.

They change scripture and literature to pander to the evangelical’s, who don’t think Mormons are even Christian! Don’t get me started on the Lamanites….

Wild ****.


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