Dumb pig cops getting smarter?

[[size/HUGE] boobs [/size]]

I do think this video illustrates what is wrong with the current approach of law enforcement in the U.S. today.

These were kids who were not allowed to swim in a pool they were having a pool party at. They were asked to leave and did not leave. Then the police showed up...

Things got considerably worse due to the presence of over aggressive police who were dealing with juvenile trespassers.

The police should be "peace officers" restoring peace to otherwise unpeaceful situations. They should be experts at diffusing minor situations such as this. Instead they become instigators and escalate minor situations into major confrontations.

Notice how the crowed responds to what is clearly an injustice, the over use of force against a minor female. Everyone who sees it knows it is wrong. That young woman does not need to be man handled that way. I can only imagine that the trauma she suffers as a result is great and many who witness it have to hold themselves back, in fear of their lives, from saving her from it.

We have a long way to go before we can hold our heads high and claim to be civilized. Our police are currently one of the lowest examples of what it means to live in a civilized society. They should be setting the standard.

Do not chater to lowest common denominator. These child's were rude to authority they got they asked for. Better solution is triple police presence to force society to respect. You have policing these neighborhoods 24 7 you will enforce thugs to obey the law.

I am tired this disrespect for law upholders. They keep us safe.

 

[DutchJazzer]

Do not chater to lowest common denominator. These child's were rude to authority they got they asked for. Better solution is triple police presence to force society to respect. You have policing these neighborhoods 24 7 you will enforce thugs to obey the law.

I am tired this disrespect for law upholders. They keep us safe.

agreed.

he has been tried and convicted in the court of public opinion and now his ilive is ruined.
only because some little **** brat(cant say she is a hood rat someone pointed out she is a just a teenage brat) though none compliance was cool and told others to non comply to the law.
and as for the officers only targeting blacks, should listen to the 911 calls calling the police. the multiple callers stated that african -americans where causing trouble. so yeah when the officers arive should they target caucasians, indian, latino members? hahahaha really.
but people dont take that information into account in the court of public opinion.


why is it when cops arrest people who comply nothing goes wrong. but people especially the black community sees the cop as an enemy, and that leads to none compliance which leads to more force having to be plied.

why is it that even the taxes bikers complied to the law when they got arrested?

 

[♪alt13]

If you had read anything else I posted you would see that I do not condone the use of force. But since you obviously didn't there is no need to carry this conversation further.


But I can see from your response that you follow the post hoc ergo propter hoc line of thinking. I guess we can fundamentally disagree there. Someone else's bad behavior does not excuse your own.

I've read what you've posted and I did not claim that you did condone the use of force. I did say that I thought your bit about cause and effect was bs.

It is funny that the fallacy that you think my thinking is victim is the very fallacy I see yours as being victim. I did not justify nor did I condone anything illegal she had done(apparently trespassing) I claimed it to be irrelevant to justifying his use of force. You set up a long causal chain in your post that you don't know to be accurate or actually causal at all. That is the definition of post hoc ergo propter hoc.

If we agree that the use of force should only be used when an individual is a threat then all the bs the girl was up to before this happened is irrelevant to the question; Was this officer justified in using force? If we do agree on this then rehashing the details of the party serves as only a distraction unless you can point to details that would show that that the officer had reason to believe that that specific girl was a threat to the officer or others.

post hoc ergo propter hoc -something happened after another thing and so was caused by it.

 

[LogGrad98]

I've read what you've posted and I did not claim that you did condone the use of force. I did say that I thought your bit about cause and effect was bs.

It is funny that the fallacy that you think my thinking is victim is the very fallacy I see yours as being victim. I did not justify nor did I condone anything illegal she had done(apparently trespassing) I claimed it to be irrelevant to justifying his use of force. You set up a long causal chain in your post that you don't know to be accurate or actually causal at all. That is the definition of post hoc ergo propter hoc.

If we agree that the use of force should only be used when an individual is a threat then all the bs the girl was up to before this happened is irrelevant to the question; Was this officer justified in using force? If we do agree on this then rehashing the details of the party serves as only a distraction unless you can point to details that would show that that the officer had reason to believe that that specific girl was a threat to the officer or others.

post hoc ergo propter hoc -something happened after another thing and so was caused by it.

So you say you didn't say that I said he was justified in use of force, but you claimed my argument was irrelevant in justifying use of force. But in no way was I attempting to justify use of force to begin with. So, not real sure what your argument is again, since it really has nothing to do with what I was saying in the first place. But I can agree with you wholeheartedly that cause and effect does not justify his use of force, since that was not the point of it to begin with.

I will boil it down this simply. If those kids had not decided to trespass that day would any of this have happened at all? The answer of course is no.

My secondary point is I get tired of people using other people's bad behavior to justify their own. Does the fact that the cop tackled that girl excuse those kids of trespassing? No it doesn't.

Nowhere in either of those points do I even try to justify the cop's excess force. He should not have tackled the girl. In fact it should never have even escalated to that point, if he had known what the hell he was doing in the first place.

Then coming back to the first point, if those kids hadn't been engaged in illegal activity to begin with NONE OF IT WOULD HAVE HAPPENED. That was the point of the cause and effect argument.

That was my point.

Can't make it any clearer.

 

[LogGrad98]

https://news.yahoo.com/mckinney-pol...pool-party-on-emotional-stress-190534788.html

The lawyer for a McKinney, Texas, police officer who has become the country’s latest exemplification of bad cop behavior on Wednesday blamed her client’s aggressive actions on emotional stress.
Cpl. Eric Casebolt was captured on video Friday evening wrestling a teenage girl to the ground and pointing his gun at two other teens while answering a disturbance call at an unruly party at a neighborhood pool in suburban Dallas.

“He never intended to mistreat anyone,” his attorney, Jane Bishkin, said at a Wednesday afternoon news conference. “He apologizes to all who were offended.”

Bishkin said Casebolt had worked one suicide and one attempted suicide in the hour prior to being dispatched to the pool party that reportedly involved teens fighting.

“The nature of these two suicide calls took an emotional toll on Eric Casebolt,” Bishkin said at a Wednesday afternoon news conference.

Daniel Malenfant, president of the McKinney Fraternal Order of Police, said Casebolt has been receiving daily telephone and email death threats.

“He's worried for his family,” Bishkin said. “He's worried that he may be followed.”

 

[♪alt13]

So you say you didn't say that I said he was justified in use of force, but you claimed my argument was irrelevant in justifying use of force. But in no way was I attempting to justify use of force to begin with. So, not real sure what your argument is again, since it really has nothing to do with what I was saying in the first place. But I can agree with you wholeheartedly that cause and effect does not justify his use of force, since that was not the point of it to begin with.

I will boil it down this simply. If those kids had not decided to trespass that day would any of this have happened at all? The answer of course is no.

My secondary point is I get tired of people using other people's bad behavior to justify their own. Does the fact that the cop tackled that girl excuse those kids of trespassing? No it doesn't.

Nowhere in either of those points do I even try to justify the cop's excess force. He should not have tackled the girl. In fact it should never have even escalated to that point, if he had known what the hell he was doing in the first place.

Then coming back to the first point, if those kids hadn't been engaged in illegal activity to begin with NONE OF IT WOULD HAVE HAPPENED. That was the point of the cause and effect argument.

That was my point.

Can't make it any clearer.

I get your point log like I said it's a distraction from the issue.

Kids trespassing at a pool party isn't newsworthy nor is it something that we as citizens earnestly need to address. Police officers using excessive or unjustified force is.

 

[♪alt13]

https://news.yahoo.com/mckinney-pol...pool-party-on-emotional-stress-190534788.html

Good to see. Hopefully him handling the mistake that he made this way will blaze a new path forward for police departments dealing with this sort of thing. Taking open accountability as opposed to holding the line is a damn good sign. Hopefully people recognize that and give him credit for that much.

 

[LogGrad98]

I get your point log like I said it's a distraction from the issue.

Kids trespassing at a pool party isn't newsworthy nor is it something that we as citizens earnestly need to address. Police officers using excessive or unjustified force is.

Why not address both issues? Why is it a one or the other kind of thing. Again we ignore some bad behavior/law breaking because some other behavior connected to it is worse. I disagree with that stance. I don't want kids trespassing on my property. It shouldn't be allowed or tolerated. I don't want cops using excessive force. It shouldn't be allowed or tolerated. Yeah I get that this thread is particularly about the cop, but excusing the teen's illegal behavior is on the same path as trying to justify the cop's use of excessive force. Yeah I get there is a difference in magnitude.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

https://www.dailykos.com/story/2015...aced-on-Administrative-Leave-by-CoreLogic-Inc

The older white lady who started the fight has been put on administrative leave. Probably going to get fired.

 

[Gameface]

Why not address both issues? Why is it a one or the other kind of thing. Again we ignore some bad behavior/law breaking because some other behavior connected to it is worse. I disagree with that stance. I don't want kids trespassing on my property. It shouldn't be allowed or tolerated. I don't want cops using excessive force. It shouldn't be allowed or tolerated. Yeah I get that this thread is particularly about the cop, but excusing the teen's illegal behavior is on the same path as trying to justify the cop's use of excessive force. Yeah I get there is a difference in magnitude.

Are you really interested in a thread about someone who invited more people than allowed to a post graduation pool party? Start that thread and lets see what sort of dialogue it generates.

 

[[size/HUGE] boobs [/size]]

The Law is a joke and this **** isn't going to stop.

There are too many laws and too many cops. There is too little training and that training has the wrong emphasis. The emphasis should be service and arbitration over protection and enforcement but it's not.

The cause and effect argument is bs. You cannot justify the use of force with a convoluted story. It's simple was this young girl in a bikini a threat. The answer to any reasonable person is no. (Being a loud mouthed teenager does not constitute a threat) A reason why something happened is not justification. It does not absolve this officer of his responsibility to only use force when necessary and to temper that force.

Too little training? Police are most trained and ongoing training profession in USA!

You are a cop hater nothing anyone does will reduce your indictment of all cops on every petty 'crime' USA media blames them of commit. You know what you should befriend a family member who is police if you are worthy and get his side of story. You are so biased it is sad.

 

[♪alt13]

Too little training? Police are most trained and ongoing training profession in USA!

You are a cop hater nothing anyone does will reduce your indictment of all cops on every petty 'crime' USA media blames them of commit. You know what you should befriend a family member who is police if you are worthy and get his side of story. You are so biased it is sad.

If we look at other professions within our justice system cops have amongst the least training. How does the training of police officers compare to the training of judges and prosecutors?

 

[moevillini]

https://www.dailykos.com/story/2015...aced-on-Administrative-Leave-by-CoreLogic-Inc

The older white lady who started the fight has been put on administrative leave. Probably going to get fired.

Administrative leave - so she gets a paid vacation as her reward? Or is it generally the rule that such leave is always unpaid? And she'll likely get fired? Do you have any evidence that might happen?

anyhow, I thought the statement by the police chief was pretty decent

"The actions of Eric Casebolt are indefensible," police Chief Greg Conley told reporters at a news conference late Tuesday afternoon, saying the officer was "out of control during the incident."

"I had 12 officers on the scene, and 11 of them performed according to their training," Conley added.

https://www.wfaa.com/videos/news/local/collin-county/2015/06/09/replay-mckinney-chief-on-officers-resignation/28766885/

 

[Stoked]

Administrative leave - so she gets a paid vacation as her reward? Or is it generally the rule that such leave is always unpaid? And she'll likely get fired? Do you have any evidence that might happen?

anyhow, I thought the statement by the police chief was pretty decent



https://www.wfaa.com/videos/news/local/collin-county/2015/06/09/replay-mckinney-chief-on-officers-resignation/28766885/

Personally I agree with administrative leave while an investigation is on going. Innocent until proven guilty.

Some investigations should be resolved quickly though (within days).

 

[Stoked]

I recently read that former office Casebolt (the cop from this video) had responded to two suicide calls early that day and they had left him frazzled and on edge.

Not that it excuses his behavior, but if that is the case why was he not taken off the street that day and sent to a counselor or therapist.

Points to poor training, benefits and support for our officers. Perhaps a more indepth and supportive policy would have had him off the streets by the time this incident occured and this never would have happened.

Thoughts?

 

[Qman]

I recently read that former office Casebolt (the cop from this video) had responded to two suicide calls early that day and they had left him frazzled and on edge.

Not that it excuses his behavior, but if that is the case why was he not taken off the street that day and sent to a counselor or therapist.

Points to poor training, benefits and support for our officers. Perhaps a more indepth and supportive policy would have had him off the streets by the time this incident occured and this never would have happened.

Thoughts?

If true, the responding to two suicide calls in one day would reasonably upset a person's emotional balance. But some people have the right emotional makeup to pull through. Maybe if they had a enough resources to pull any officer in that situation in the office to just do paperwork for the rest of the day, then things would be better.

Though let's not overstate what happened. No one died. No one suffered debilitating permanent injury. A cop made a mistake that made situation more dangerous and scared some kids. Yes the mistake could have become tragic. But it did not. Seems like a close-call like this requires a careful examination of what lead to this situation.

 

[LogGrad98]

https://news.yahoo.com/mckinney-pol...pool-party-on-emotional-stress-190534788.html

I recently read that former office Casebolt (the cop from this video) had responded to two suicide calls early that day and they had left him frazzled and on edge.

Not that it excuses his behavior, but if that is the case why was he not taken off the street that day and sent to a counselor or therapist.

Points to poor training, benefits and support for our officers. Perhaps a more indepth and supportive policy would have had him off the streets by the time this incident occured and this never would have happened.

Thoughts?

Already posted in this thread...

 

[Stoked]

If true, the responding to two suicide calls in one day would reasonably upset a person's emotional balance. But some people have the right emotional makeup to pull through. Maybe if they had a enough resources to pull any officer in that situation in the office to just do paperwork for the rest of the day, then things would be better.

Though let's not overstate what happened. No one died. No one suffered debilitating permanent injury. A cop made a mistake that made situation more dangerous and scared some kids. Yes the mistake could have become tragic. But it did not. Seems like a close-call like this requires a careful examination of what lead to this situation.

I agree which is why I was wondering if the PDs should have a program where there is a mandatory therapy/counseling session for cases that involved suicide and other highly stressful scenarios. Then the therapist can determine if they should be removed from street duty for the day or longer.

But then that creates problems for smaller PDs that don't have a therapist on staff.

On a somewhat related note. A principal in Miami made a person FB post supporting the officer and has been reassigned to an school district office job while they investigate what he said. SMH...

 

[Joe Bagadonuts]

agreed.

he has been tried and convicted in the court of public opinion and now his ilive is ruined.
only because some little **** brat(cant say she is a hood rat someone pointed out she is a just a teenage brat) though none compliance was cool and told others to non comply to the law.
and as for the officers only targeting blacks, should listen to the 911 calls calling the police. the multiple callers stated that african -americans where causing trouble. so yeah when the officers arive should they target caucasians, indian, latino members? hahahaha really.
but people dont take that information into account in the court of public opinion.


why is it when cops arrest people who comply nothing goes wrong. but people especially the black community sees the cop as an enemy, and that leads to none compliance which leads to more force having to be plied.

why is it that even the taxes bikers complied to the law when they got arrested?

So if a call comes into 911 and they say there are white people making trouble then the cops should show up and start subduing all of the white people they can find? The bottom line is that the dark haired officer handled the situation terribly. So terribly that, in my view, he proved himself unqualified for the job. He was making the situation worse, not better.

 

[fishonjazz]

The bottom line is that the dark haired officer handled the situation terribly.

The police chief confirmed this.

Dutch is just dutching