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Enes Kanter - The good and the bad (how advanced stats show what we've all been thinking)

jope

jope

Well-Known Member
It seems there has been much talk of Kanter's shortcomings, successes, and comparisons here lately. I wanted to investigate the following assumptions about Kanter by looking at his quantitative measurements, and how he ranks in comparison to the rest of the league.

Key Thoughts on JazzFanz:
-Amazing at rebounding
-Gets blocked a lot
-Can (or has potential to) shoot the long ball (comparisons to Dirk and Okur)
-Never passes (Al jefferson on steroids)


First - Let's look at Kanter's rebound rate
ReboundRate.png

14th in the entire league at rebound rate

Good Rebounder? Confirmed

Next, lets see if the assumption that he gets his shot blocked way too much holds true...
blockedk.png

10th in the NBA at getting his shot blocked...

Get's his shot blocked too much? Confirmed

Next - how did he shoot outside the paint last season?
shootingk.png


From 3-9 feet: 37%
From 10-15 feet: 28.6%
From 16-23 feet: 26%

Good shooter across the floor? No (at least, not last season. {Please can we stop comparing him to Dirk/Okur until this improves})


Finally, is he any less of a black hole than Al Jeffereson?
assistK.png


He has the worst assist rate in the entire NBA

Bigger black hole than Jefferson?: Confirmed


Discuss
 

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Project or finished product? Discuss.

Edit to add: It's a good post and fine job putting the info up, but seems like people are very eager to find a side of some fence to be on.

I didn't want this guy I wanted JV and gave a lot of reasons some of which are represented here. But it was also clear that it would be unfair to judge the kid until he had a chance to develop.
 
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Maybe I need to read more on this board but I rarely hear him compared to Okur and even less to Dirk. When he was drafted I heard that but not lately. Prior to draft people said he was a good shooter, now most of hope he can start to hit mid range shot consistently.
 
I'm convinced he's got some range. He didn't show it last season, but he's got it. Just needs the confidence.

Absolutely a project, though. I'm not going to start legitimately criticizing him until the end of next season, at the earliest.
 
Xsy said:
I'm convinced he's got some range. He didn't show it last season, but he's got it. Just needs the confidence.

Absolutely a project, though. I'm not going to start legitimately criticizing him until the end of next season, at the earliest.
Click to expand...

If summer league is any indication of hitting an open jumper its not looking good.
 
His passing will come when he's playing offense, not thinking through it.

EDIT:
His passing will come when he's not just going through his post motions
 
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jope said:
It seems there has been much talk of Kanter's shortcomings, successes, and comparisons here lately. I wanted to investigate the following assumptions about Kanter by looking at his quantitative measurements, and how he ranks in comparison to the rest of the league.

Key Thoughts on JazzFanz:
-Amazing at rebounding
-Gets blocked a lot
-Can (or has potential to) shoot the long ball (comparisons to Dirk and Okur)
-Never passes (Al jefferson on steroids)


First - Let's look at Kanter's rebound rate
ReboundRate.png

14th in the entire league at rebound rate

Good Rebounder? Confirmed

Next, lets see if the assumption that he gets his shot blocked way too much holds true...
blockedk.png

10th in the NBA at getting his shot blocked...

Get's his shot blocked too much? Confirmed

Next - how did he shoot outside the paint last season?
shootingk.png


From 3-9 feet: 37%
From 10-15 feet: 28.6%
From 16-23 feet: 26%

Good shooter across the floor? No (at least, not last season. {Please can we stop comparing him to Dirk/Okur until this improves})


Finally, is he any less of a black hole than Al Jeffereson?
assistK.png


He has the worst assist rate in the entire NBA

Bigger black hole than Jefferson?: Confirmed


Discuss
Click to expand...

Good sir! Enes Kanter is the GOAT. May Gordon have mercy on your soul.
 
With the minutes Enes is playing and the way that the Jazz are playing him, I don't want him taking shots that aren't at the rim. He need to be at the rim creating havoc. Also, if he is at the rim, or grabbing an offensive board, he needs to be taking that shot and not passing out. I don't recall a lot of double teams on Enes last year.

First we need to teach him to keep the ball high as he shoots it or puts it back up. Once he is consistant with that then he can start to look for stationary shooters when the defensive help comes. Hitting the cutters properly will probably take years. Look how long it took Shaq to do that. He was a few years into playing with the Lakers before he learned to properly pass out of the post. (I loved the Stockton doubles on Shaq in the post when we were dominating them.)

In this stage of development and the spots where Kanter is asked to play, a high assist rate isn't what we are looking for out of him. I would argue also that his range is TBD because the sample size is just so small, and the time he gets on the court is not conducive for showcasing that aspect of his game.
 
nightmare3983 said:
With Kanter being as good at rebounding as he is, I don't want him hanging around the 3-point line. I want him inside getting offensive rebounds.
Click to expand...

This. I know Kevin Love has added this gimmick to his game, but unless your 40% + I bet the advanced stats would show he is really hurting his team doing it.
 
jope said:
It seems there has been much talk of Kanter's shortcomings, successes, and comparisons here lately. I wanted to investigate the following assumptions about Kanter by looking at his quantitative measurements, and how he ranks in comparison to the rest of the league.

First - Let's look at Kanter's rebound rate

14th in the entire league at rebound rate
Click to expand...
Actually 13th, Jordan Hill is listed twice. Doesn't change your conclusion, I'm just a stat pedant :-).

Jazz4ever said:
This. I know Kevin Love has added this gimmick to his game, but unless your 40% + I bet the advanced stats would show he is really hurting his team doing it.
Click to expand...
Kevin Love always had range, but in his rookie year his coach didn't want him shooting 3s, but to play inside. Kanter may have been playing under similar orders last season - I keep hearing that he has an outside game, but I only saw him shoot a handful of jumpers last season. His stroke looked good, but too small a sample size to draw any conclusions.
 
It all comes down to this: Enes is as strong as an ox and as slow as a turtle. Call him Chief Nagippehooto, that's Hopi for Chief TurtleOx.
 
To be honest if I had to pick one player I want kanter to be even close to in comparisons is Kevin love with less of a 3 pt shot. Every one said love could jump and wasn't going to get his shot off in the nba. if kanter can learn to hit the mid range maybe a little pick and pop at the 3 then his post game will open up.

I agree I am holding off judgement until the end of this year. When he has a full off season, training camp and full year to work on. He needs 15 to 17 min a game next year too.
 
I got to watch some Jared Sullinger last night as I was Jimmer scouting. Offensively Sullinger is probably Kanter's ceiling. Sullinger has a jumper out to the 3pt line. He has a baby hook and fadeaway as a counter. He rebounds flatfooted by size, strength and great positioning. Now Kanter is significantly bigger. But he could to worse than patterning his offensive game off of Sullinger's.

But Kanter's offensive game can wait. He will always be a good rebounder. He may become a great one. I want him to develop better defensive footwork and awareness first. That way he can get on the court for extended periods of time and be an assest.

I guess my hopes for his offensive development are limited. But he doesn't need to develop offensively to be a big part of our team going forward.
 
sepanol said:
Is he any less blackhole than Al Jefferson?

Hell Yeah
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statistically speaking, he was the biggest black hole in the entire NBA.

Now IMO, this won't always be the case (in the jazz offense, if your head is up and you are reading the defense, you should be able to find at least 1 cutter per game. this skill should hopefully come over time for Kanter), but 8 assists in 874 minutes (0.009 assists per minute) doesn't really inspire a whole lot of confidence in his passing skills/bball IQ.
 
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