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Favs Deal Must Be Moved

We can’t do this til October but I’m down for:

Rozier (just 27 y/o next year), Bridges, 2021 1st (#11), 2021 2nd (#56), and a 2023 protected (top 5) 1st for Gobert.

Trade Favors and a 2022 2nd to OKC.

Try to S&T Conley but do no take back dumb salary. If he walks, he walks. That might be the best move.

Get on Udoka to be a ****ing beast and be in the best (semi-leanest, quickest) shape of his life. Tell him, you’re the starting center now. We need lockdown defense. Have Mitchell et al up his *** about arriving early and staying late.

This puts us at 104M, or about 8M under the cap, gets us a ******** younger, and doesn’t take into consideration that we could round out the roster with that remaining 8M (probably a little less after cheaper guys, rookies), the full MLE, and the 11th and 30th picks in the draft. Go hard after Batum, Gay or someone of that ilk. Sign Caruso and Hernangomez on the cheap so we actually have a backup point guard. Maybe go after Aminu too on the super cheap.
Draft BPA at 11.
Trade back from 30 to acquire a couple 2nds. Draft two more BPA’s. Or use 11, 30, the 2nd, and a future pick to move up…or move down. We’d actually have a lot of assets for once. Of course, this can’t happen til October but it could be done on draft day essentially and then triggered months later.

Rozier-Caruso
Mitchell-Clarkson
O’Neale-Bridges
Bogdanovic-Ingles
Udoka-Hernangomez

And that roster doesn’t include who we’d draft at 11, in the 2nd, or the fact that we also acquired a 2023 1st from Charlotte. I also don’t see some monstrous dropoff here. I have faith Udoka can be a heck of a center. Not necessarily DPOY but who knows. He was damn good at KU and was also as insanely efficient on offense like Gobert is. I know Gobert puts up all-time efficiency numbers. I’m simply saying I don’t think Udoka would be a disaster there and could actually surprise us. Perhaps, most importantly, we’d have assets for once and get a ******** younger and could grow the next couple years into something more formidable overall.
 
GVC said:
I hate told-you-so's, generally, but...

A handful of years ago, I was basically run off the board (by Fish and a few other dullards) for suggesting that the jury was still out on DL. At the time, I pointed out that DL had inherited a playoff team with 2 near-all stars (Millsap proved to be an all-star upon leaving) and four young lottery picks, but had yet to build a team any better than the one he inherited (or the ones KOC had built in the initial post-S2M era).

Well, there were 9 post-S2M KOC Jazz teams and now 9 post-KOC DL teams, and I think it's tough to make the case that DL has done better job in his 9 years than KOC did in his last 9, despite having a much more advantageous starting point:

Record
KOC: 390-332, .540 (44.3 wins over an 82-game season)
DL: 391-327, .545 (44.7 wins over an 82-game season)

Playoffs
KOC: 5 appearances, 4 series wins
DL: 5 appearances, 3 series wins

It's worth reiterating that the Jazz had a stockpile of young talent and a couple expiring near all-stars when DL came on, and the Jazz currently have very little in the way of assets and financial flexibility to improve the current team--although they do have two stars.

DL's not a terrible GM/Executive, mind you, just not a particularly creative or proactive one.
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He was great at excuses and justifying standing pat. Also the best at giving away 2nd round picks, getting Korver twice and had a man crush on Bradley. And on on I'm glad that mo fo is gone
 
Wes Mantooth said:
We can’t do this til October but I’m down for:

Rozier (just 27 y/o next year), Bridges, 2021 1st (#11), 2021 2nd (#56), and a 2023 protected (top 5) 1st for Gobert.

Trade Favors and a 2022 2nd to OKC.

Try to S&T Conley but do no take back dumb salary. If he walks, he walks. That might be the best move.

Get on Udoka to be a ****ing beast and be in the best (semi-leanest, quickest) shape of his life. Tell him, you’re the starting center now. We need lockdown defense. Have Mitchell et al up his *** about arriving early and staying late.

This puts us at 104M, or about 8M under the cap, gets us a ******** younger, and doesn’t take into consideration that we could round out the roster with that remaining 8M (probably a little less after cheaper guys, rookies), the full MLE, and the 11th and 30th picks in the draft. Go hard after Batum, Gay or someone of that ilk. Sign Caruso and Hernangomez on the cheap so we actually have a backup point guard. Maybe go after Aminu too on the super cheap.
Draft BPA at 11.
Trade back from 30 to acquire a couple 2nds. Draft two more BPA’s. Or use 11, 30, the 2nd, and a future pick to move up…or move down. We’d actually have a lot of assets for once. Of course, this can’t happen til October but it could be done on draft day essentially and then triggered months later.

Rozier-Caruso
Mitchell-Clarkson
O’Neale-Bridges
Bogdanovic-Ingles
Udoka-Hernangomez

And that roster doesn’t include who we’d draft at 11, in the 2nd, or the fact that we also acquired a 2023 1st from Charlotte. I also don’t see some monstrous dropoff here. I have faith Udoka can be a heck of a center. Not necessarily DPOY but who knows. He was damn good at KU and was also as insanely efficient on offense like Gobert is. I know Gobert puts up all-time efficiency numbers. I’m simply saying I don’t think Udoka would be a disaster there and could actually surprise us. Perhaps, most importantly, we’d have assets for once and get a ******** younger and could grow the next couple years into something more formidable overall.
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Not a bad plan.

All comes down to Mike. If he stays, maybe don't do this. If he leaves, this has to be considered.
 
I’m one of the biggest Favs homers. But even I cringed when he signed that big of a contract. And drafting Dok along with it made it even worse.
 
GVC said:
It's worth reiterating that the Jazz had a stockpile of young talent and a couple expiring near all-stars when DL came on, and the Jazz currently have very little in the way of assets and financial flexibility to improve the current team--although they do have two stars.
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This is the key thing, really. DL made some good draft decisions, but everything else has been pretty poor.

For one, there were entirely too many situations where the Jazz let players walk and got nothing in return. There is no way in hell that no one was willing to offer anything of value for a 27-year old Millsap who would instantly rattle off 4 straight All-Star appearances and a 28-year old Jefferson who would immediately lead the freaking Hornets to playoffs.

They were allowed to walk because Kanter and Favors were supposed to be our future Twin Towers and take us to a championship right about now. We all know how that worked out, but why did we have to wait until Kanter became worthless to trade him? What bothers me the most about that trade is that OKC gave up Jackson in it(man, he'd have been nice to have about a month ago, eh?) but just not to us. We got the corpse of Kendrick Perkins, a dude named Tibor, and some guy basketball-reference swears played a few games for the Jazz but I'll have to take them at their word. Oh, and a draft pick that would eventually become Ricky Rubio whom Lindsey then allowed to walk for nothing.

Then two FRPs were traded for Burke, who was of course utter garbage, and was then traded to the Wizards for a 2021 2RP. Do I even have to point out that we no longer even own that pick? Then that same summer Burke is unloaded, the Jazz have the 12th pick in a draft where there would be tons of decent players in late first round and early second round, but that ends up going towards a 1-year rental of George Hill. Of course, of course, he walks for nothing. So does Gordon Hayward. Looking back at it, someone really should've talked to him the summer before to figure out whether he actually wanted to resign.

He got Derrick Rose in a trade and then cut him. The Knicks were willing to trade a 2RP and a young player for him 3 years later! You're telling me nothing could've been gotten for Rose at the time?

Tons of other players were allowed to walk, too. DeMare Carroll, for one. We held on to Miles and Burks until they had absolutely no value and were either allowed to walk or traded for a taxidermied Korver. Thomas Bryant and Josh Hart were traded for Bradley and we had to then throw in a player to convince the Pistons to take him off our hands. The Pistons gave up jack all in that trade.

Even the Rodney Hood situation, where he was traded for Crowder, who was then packaged to get Conley, who might simply walk in a month, might end up being like this.

Lindsey is a master of trades where the Jazz within 3-5 years end up with nothing to show for them. He lets players walk in the way teams who actually have a chance at marquee free agents let players walk. He just ends up turning assets(however meager they may be) into nothing.
 
JimLes said:
This is the key thing, really. DL made some good draft decisions, but everything else has been pretty poor.

For one, there were entirely too many situations where the Jazz let players walk and got nothing in return. There is no way in hell that no one was willing to offer anything of value for a 27-year old Millsap who would instantly rattle off 4 straight All-Star appearances and a 28-year old Jefferson who would immediately lead the freaking Hornets to playoffs.

They were allowed to walk because Kanter and Favors were supposed to be our future Twin Towers and take us to a championship right about now. We all know how that worked out, but why did we have to wait until Kanter became worthless to trade him? What bothers me the most about that trade is that OKC gave up Jackson in it(man, he'd have been nice to have about a month ago, eh?) but just not to us. We got the corpse of Kendrick Perkins, a dude named Tibor, and some guy basketball-reference swears played a few games for the Jazz but I'll have to take them at their word. Oh, and a draft pick that would eventually become Ricky Rubio whom Lindsey then allowed to walk for nothing.

Then two FRPs were traded for Burke, who was of course utter garbage, and was then traded to the Wizards for a 2021 2RP. Do I even have to point out that we no longer even own that pick? Then that same summer Burke is unloaded, the Jazz have the 12th pick in a draft where there would be tons of decent players in late first round and early second round, but that ends up going towards a 1-year rental of George Hill. Of course, of course, he walks for nothing. So does Gordon Hayward. Looking back at it, someone really should've talked to him the summer before to figure out whether he actually wanted to resign.

He got Derrick Rose in a trade and then cut him. The Knicks were willing to trade a 2RP and a young player for him 3 years later! You're telling me nothing could've been gotten for Rose at the time?

Tons of other players were allowed to walk, too. DeMare Carroll, for one. We held on to Miles and Burks until they had absolutely no value and were either allowed to walk or traded for a taxidermied Korver. Thomas Bryant and Josh Hart were traded for Bradley and we had to then throw in a player to convince the Pistons to take him off our hands. The Pistons gave up jack all in that trade.

Even the Rodney Hood situation, where he was traded for Crowder, who was then packaged to get Conley, who might simply walk in a month, might end up being like this.

Lindsey is a master of trades where the Jazz within 3-5 years end up with nothing to show for them. He lets players walk in the way teams who actually have a chance at marquee free agents let players walk. He just ends up turning assets(however meager they may be) into nothing.
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Wasn’t Millsap and Al under the KOC tenure.

I have my issues with DL most are about wasted cap space and mismanaging contracts and the cap.
 
themanknownassting said:
I’m one of the biggest Favs homers. But even I cringed when he signed that big of a contract. And drafting Dok along with it made it even worse.
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This will further make you cry. I came upon a mock draft that was done by someone in the league office. The good news is that they had Hughes as a late first round pick. The bad news is they had Dok a very late second round pick even after Sam Merrill who was Mr. Irrelevant.
 
homeytennis said:
This will further make you cry. I came upon a mock draft that was done by someone in the league office. The good news is that they had Hughes as a late first round pick. The bad news is they had Dok a very late second round pick even after Sam Merrill who was Mr. Irrelevant.
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Sam Merrill has had a better rookie year than Doke too. He’s played and hit threes in limited minutes.

To me, it really doesn’t bode well for Doke’s future that he didn’t make the Nigerian national team despite being an NBA player.
 
Hekate said:
PJ Tucker, Bridges and Crowder, Morris, Bruce Brown aren't role players? Every team starts role players.
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Usually your starters are your best players, role players tend to start for match up reasons, don't worry your boy Niang started a few games under DL's watch but those days are over.
 
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