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Game Thread Feb 08, 2023 07:00PM MT: Jazz vs. Wolves

Added to Calendar: 02-08-23

Jingled said:
You act like he's a free agent after next season, he has two more years left on his contract after this season. That gives Danny two summers to work his magic. Lauri is having the best year of his career by leaps and bounds with the Jazz and has said he's happier here than he's ever been in his career. Plus we'll be able to pay him more than any other team. I don't think we need to worry
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I don't think he cares about the money to that extent. His next deal will be huge regardless where it's coming from.

The fact remains that the clock is ticking for Lauri and he knows it. He's not 22, he'll be 26 in a few months. That means he's smack in the middle of his prime, and he won't want to spend it losing night after night on a rebuilding team.

Sure he said he's happy in Utah, but that came from playing meaningful games in a role that suited him. And winning. When you take away the winning and throw him out there with some dudes who see a tank job as a fantastic opportunity to improve their own scoring averages, it could get ugly fast. He's seen it before, remember.

A lot hinges on next offseason. The Jazz most likely won't be drafting a guy who will make an immediate impact in the wins column, so this looks like a multiyear stretch of sucking unless DA can lure in some free agents who can actually play. Not holding my breath, particularly if they decide to keep Clarkson.

If next season starts with no real hope in the horizon, I fully expect Lauri to be traded for a younger talent, leading to even more losing down the road.

Sure it all sounds depressing, but that's tanking for you. It is what it is. Markkanen's timeline was perfect for a team that looked like it was going for the playoffs. It's terrible for a team that's starting a tank.

Jazz fans should take a long look at the Houston Rockets, because that's our future. Enjoy!
 
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Tremendous Upside said:
I don't think he cares about the money to that extent. His next deal will be huge regardless where it's coming from.

The fact remains that the clock is ticking for Lauri and he knows it. He's not 22, he'll be 26 in a few months. That means he's smack in the middle of his prime, and he won't want to spend it losing night after night on a rebuilding team.

Sure he said he's happy in Utah, but that came from playing meaningful games in a role that suited him. And winning. When you take away the winning and throw him out there with some dudes who see a tank job as a fantastic opportunity to improve their own scoring averages, it could get ugly fast. He's seen it before, remember.

A lot hinges on next offseason. The Jazz most likely won't be drafting a guy who will make an immediate impact in the wins column, so this looks like a multiyear stretch of sucking unless DA can lure in some free agents who can actually play. Not holding my breath, particularly if they decide to keep Clarkson.

If next season starts with no real hope in the horizon, I fully expect Lauri to be traded for a younger talent, leading to even more losing down the road.

Sure it all sounds depressing, but that's tanking for you. It is what it is. Markkanen's timeline was perfect for a team that looked like it was going for the playoffs. It's terrible for a team that's starting a tank.

Jazz fans should take a long look at the Houston Rockets, because that's our future. Enjoy!
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You have some valid points in that the rebuild has to turn upwards fast or we might be forced to tear it down further. That much I agree on. Next draft and offseason are gonna be critical in this.

But if you think it reasonably, the pieces we just traded away were not guys who are impossible to replace. Vando was a talented athlete sure, but a bad fit. Beasley was a flamethrower but unreliable. Conley was the guy we will miss the most, but he wasnt part of any future championship iteration for sure. NAW never made it to Hardy's favor and has a long history of being mediocre elsewhere as well.

We created a lot of cap and roster flexibility with this trade (our most expensive players are not Sexton and Lauri at 16M range) and we are projected to have 30M free cap next offseason. We have a lot of flexiblity going forward, meaning we can get the guys we want and dont need to settle for lesser pieces we would hope for like the Lakers and Wolves just did on that trade.

Being successful in 2023 draft and next offseason might mean we come out with a lot better (and younger) team next season. But if we fail in the draft and offseason... then as you said a further teardown and Rockets route might be looming in the future. But we will only know that by the end of this calendar year or the end of next season.
 
HermanG said:
We have a lot of flexiblity going forward, meaning we can get the guys we want and dont need to settle for esser pieces we would hope for like the Lakers and Wolves just did on that trade.

Being successful in 2023 draft and next offseason might mean we come out with a lot better (and younger) team next season. But if we fail in the draft and offseason... then as you said a further teardown and Rockets route might be looming in the future. But we will only know that by the end of this calendar year or the end of next season.
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I don't think the Jazz can simply get the guys they want. For free agents, they have to want to come to Utah. And Utah has a tanking team that will look awful the rest of the way, Lauri Markkanen and ... that's it. Of course, the Jazz can offer more money than many others, but then that just leaves you with deals that quickly turn into horrible contracts.

As for trades, getting major pieces for the picks is actually complicated by all the cap space. To get a max-ish player, the Jazz have to match salaries by including Sexton and KO's and THT's expirings - and that's their only option. And that's for this summer. Next summer (if they let KO & THT expire) the only option to include is those players they've just signed as free agents. And any agent worth their price will tell that to their clients.
 
HermanG said:
You have some valid points in that the rebuild has to turn upwards fast or we might be forced to tear it down further. That much I agree on. Next draft and offseason are gonna be critical in this.

But if you think it reasonably, the pieces we just traded away were not guys who are impossible to replace. Vando was a talented athlete sure, but a bad fit. Beasley was a flamethrower but unreliable. Conley was the guy we will miss the most, but he wasnt part of any future championship iteration for sure. NAW never made it to Hardy's favor and has a long history of being mediocre elsewhere as well.

We created a lot of cap and roster flexibility with this trade (our most expensive players are not Sexton and Lauri at 16M range) and we are projected to have 30M free cap next offseason. We have a lot of flexiblity going forward, meaning we can get the guys we want and dont need to settle for lesser pieces we would hope for like the Lakers and Wolves just did on that trade.

Being successful in 2023 draft and next offseason might mean we come out with a lot better (and younger) team next season. But if we fail in the draft and offseason... then as you said a further teardown and Rockets route might be looming in the future. But we will only know that by the end of this calendar year or the end of next season.
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I agree with that. We got a 1 and half year window. Quite narrow but possible. It's allways sad to see nice players go but this is NBA. The 2 main reasons why i support the Jazz are Rudy and Mike. All gone ! But i still find interest to discover new player as Lauri who have a incredible year. Le'ts not get too low if we are really bad in the 26 coming games and see what the draft and free agency bring.
 
Korisfani said:
I don't think the Jazz can simply get the guys they want. For free agents, they have to want to come to Utah. And Utah has a tanking team that will look awful the rest of the way, Lauri Markkanen and ... that's it. Of course, the Jazz can offer more money than many others, but then that just leaves you with deals that quickly turn into horrible contracts.

As for trades, getting major pieces for the picks is actually complicated by all the cap space. To get a max-ish player, the Jazz have to match salaries by including Sexton and KO's and THT's expirings - and that's their only option. And that's for this summer. Next summer (if they let KO & THT expire) the only option to include is those players they've just signed as free agents. And any agent worth their price will tell that to their clients.
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First off, we dont know what the team will look like. The tank being successful or not depends on what happens today as well as how the guys elevated higher in the rotation look like. We might end up 11-14 range anways.. although I highly doubt it since I think the spirit is broken.

Secondly, do you think its hard to argue we are building towards being competitive to any FA who wants to win? Yeah our record may end up 5 wins worse this year, but does that really change the perceived future outlook? We dont have bad contracts, we have cap space, we have a huge pool of draft assets, we dont have max deals... also unlike other tanking teams, we already have one All-star level guy.
 
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