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Federal judge declares Utah polygamy law unconstitutional

franklin said:
I'm all for freedom of religion except cults like polygamy. I fully support federal agents setting up permanent shop inside polyg communities as an outlet for sister wives to escape through.

No problem with secular polyg/andry, or religious if it's not secluded from society.


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I think it's perfectly ok for people to seclude themselves from society. The problem is specific practices that some polygamist communities have engaged in. Statutory rape, intimidation, and abuse are things that should be prosecuted. Faith, consentual sex between adults, and just being weird should not be.
 
LogGrad98 said:
Or two men. Maybe franklin wants to have a bro-ho.
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I hate mowing lawn, bro-ho


heyhey said:
I think it's perfectly ok for people to seclude themselves from society. The problem is specific practices that some polygamist communities have engaged in. Statutory rape, intimidation, and abuse are things that should be prosecuted. Faith, consentual sex between adults, and just being weird should not be.
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It's a judgment call. You could make the same argument for inbreeding bayou frog chasers, but the whole religious brainwashing thing kind of excludes these similar scenarios. Polyg communities require more or less...well, no less about it... women to give up their freedom, which is against the law as it now stands.

Freedom of religion is not carte blanch license to control others as your puppets.
 
His Holiness our Beloved Shepherd and Prophet told me to tell you that controlling people as your puppets is just fine.
 
franklin said:
It's a judgment call. You could make the same argument for inbreeding bayou frog chasers, but the whole religious brainwashing thing kind of excludes these similar scenarios. Polyg communities require more or less...well, no less about it... women to give up their freedom, which is against the law as it now stands.

Freedom of religion is not carte blanch license to control others as your puppets.
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I agree. I was just saying that seclusion from society is not in itself wrong. Many communities seclude themselves to one degree or another. People may chose to seclude themselves as a group but that does not always include brainwashing.

I mentioned intimidation and abuse in my original post to address brainwashing. Which I think is the real difference between a cult and religion.(brainwashing and faith) We cannot easily discern between the two in any legal sense, but we can prosecute people for some of the psychological tools used to brainwash people.
 
One Brow said:
I'm quite sure heyhey is aware that bigamy is still illegal. Do you appreciate the difference between "decriminalize" and "legalize", and why the former does not imply the latter?
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I know what decriminalize means, thank you very much. Do you actually believe that people will now not be prosecuted when they try to claim multiple wives on their tax return? Because that would mean decriminalized.
 
JimLes said:
I know what decriminalize means, thank you very much. Do you actually believe that people will now not be prosecuted when they try to claim multiple wives on their tax return? Because that would mean decriminalized.
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I don't believe tax fraud has been decriminalized by this ruling. Claiming you are legally married on a tax return would be tax fraud, would it not?
 
One Brow said:
I don't believe tax fraud has been decriminalized by this ruling. Claiming you are legally married on a tax return would be tax fraud, would it not?
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It would not be claiming. You would be legally married to two women. Now, they may choose to charge you with tax fraud, I don't know much about that, but they would surely charge you with bigamy if you contracted two legal marriages to two women.

That's my point. Decriminalized means getting rid of criminal penalties for doing something. I'm pretty sure if whatever government agency figured out you've contracted multiple legal marriages, you'd get charged. That's not decriminalization. Decriminalization would be if they just wrote you a fine and let you get on with the orgies or whatever.
 
JimLes said:
It would not be claiming. You would be legally married to two women.
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Again, decriminalization =/= legalization. You would not be married to two women in the eyes of the law.

JimLes said:
That's my point. Decriminalized means getting rid of criminal penalties for doing something. I'm pretty sure if whatever government agency figured out you've contracted multiple legal marriages, you'd get charged. That's not decriminalization. Decriminalization would be if they just wrote you a fine and let you get on with the orgies or whatever.
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My understanding of the prior Utah law was that it criminalized marriages not recognized by law, and that those are now decriminalized.
 
Are there any folks here who are in support of polygamy or have had direct contact with someone or folks who practice it?
 
VINYLONE said:
Are there any folks here who are in support of polygamy or have had direct contact with someone or folks who practice it?
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Went to elementary school with a brother and sister who were from a polig family. At 14 the dad tried to marry the sister off, who was friends with my sis and her best friend. Girl ran away for a couple months before going back and livin' that polig life. I imagine her dorkwad brother is bangin' multiple chicks on the regs nowadays.
 
Gameface said:
Went to elementary school with a brother and sister who were from a polig family. At 14 the dad tried to marry the sister off, who was friends with my sis and her best friend. Girl ran away for a couple months before going back and livin' that polig life. I imagine her dorkwad brother is bangin' multiple chicks on the regs nowadays.
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I don't know much about the p lifestyle, I've just heard that there is a lot of dysfunction with those families...
 
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Gameface said:
Went to elementary school with a brother and sister who were from a polig family. At 14 the dad tried to marry the sister off, who was friends with my sis and her best friend. Girl ran away for a couple months before going back and livin' that polig life. I imagine her dorkwad brother is bangin' multiple chicks on the regs nowadays.
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Hmmmm... Being a polygamist maybe isn't as bad as it sounds!
 
VINYLONE said:
Are there any folks here who are in support of polygamy or have had direct contact with someone or folks who practice it?
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I dated a girl who was raised in a poligamist family (3 moms, 16 siblings)

She got out of it cause she hated it
 
She got out of it? You mean, she left her family when she became of age? Or did she go to a foster home? Also, what did she specifically hate about the family?
 
VINYLONE said:
I don't know much about the p lifestyle, I've just heard that there is a lot of dysfunction with those families...
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Well, Ruth Ann wasn't super excited about getting hitched to a guy in his mid 40s when she was 14 and had been hangning out with regular girls with regular ideas about guys. I can tell you that. Running away was serious business to her and she intended to not marry this fat old ******* her dad arranged for her (typically there's a deal involved, give me your sweet under-aged daughter and I'll give you X). Her family hunted for her relentlessly. It was a tragedy for my sister and her friends when they found her and she went back with them to face her fate. A tragedy.
 
VINYLONE said:
Are there any folks here who are in support of polygamy or have had direct contact with someone or folks who practice it?
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One Brow said:
I'm opposed to the way polygyny is practiced in some groups, but not to polygamy per se.
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Pretty much this. If consenting adults want to have multiple spouses, I think they should be able to. Marrying young teenage girls is sick.
I know at least one guy who was born into a polygamist family (FLDS) and left. I don't know anybody who actually practices it.
 
VINYLONE said:
She got out of it? You mean, she left her family when she became of age? Or did she go to a foster home? Also, what did she specifically hate about the family?
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Oh sorry I was very vague..... her father actually took the kids and moved away from the community so it was easy for get away.

She hated most everything about it.... the clothing, rules, conservatism, religion, hairstyles, being cut off from the rest of the world, feeling different/wierd as far as others saw the lifestyle

A lot of the reason the father left was financial (he became a multi millionaire after moving to slc) but also he took his kids from that environment because his kids hated it and he wanted what's best for his kids
 
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