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Feeling Better About This Team

Ferguson_Mellochill said:
You know what would have been a brilliant adjustment tonight? Taking Mike Conley off the floor, playing Mitchell at the 1, and using Eric Paschall as a secondary initiator. Let Paschall drive in the paint and either finish or kick it out. That's how you punish a team going small. Conley wasn't doing anything anyway. The Jazz need to develop Paschall as a point-forward.

The other option, which you'll laugh at, would be to play NAW with Mitchell in a two-guard front.
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I love that and Quin would never.
 
LifeOnaPlate said:
That's how I feel now, sadly. I want to be proven wrong. Prove me wrong, Jazz!!! But the confidence I had last year is gone. (And I still think, if healthy last year, we had a real shot.)
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Start of this year when there really wasn't a big change in buy in or philosophy is when I wrote them off as contenders. It is a pretty big missed opportunity in my mind. We would have needed an injury but CP hardly ever holds up. Steph has issues too... there was an open door and we have a lot of good things... just seems that tying things together is an impossible task.
 
SteakNEggs said:
This team is what it is. A first round if not second round exit. Donovan is great but he also can get extremely selfish. Imo he should be averaging 7 assist but he'd rather get his then pass. Rudy is great but for his salary he is plain out awful on offense as far as him with the ball in his hands or when a teammate attempts to put the ball in his hands. I agree with his frustrations about not getting the ball but whenever he does get his chance, he usually does something stupid with it.

Mike is Mike. He's consistently good but how much of the needle does he move? Bogey is hit or miss and is almost as bad as Rudy with the ball I'm his hands. Royce... He wouldn't be a starter or even a 20 minute guy on any other team. I hate ragging on the guy but he's just flat out terrible as far as his role on this team. Whatever role doing absolutely nothing but playing decent defense once in a great while is.

There's little to no camadare and our two all-stars and have the maturity of grade school children are massive failures as far as leadership. There is no leadership on this team whatsoever and that includes Quin who is the definition of insanity with his stubborn lineups that constantly get exposed.

I hope I'm wrong but in my 30+ years of watching sports, this current teams make-up is one of my least favorites ever. It's getting harder for me to watch.
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Yeah, I really resonate with this. I almost never watch games live anymore, I just cannot take it. I watch it on LP afterwards so I can fast forward as needed. Honestly, I feel like I brace myself for watching a game instead of getting excited for it.

I obviously think there are some needed roster changes but more and more I think the priority is a coaching change. I mentioned in a previous post that almost every first time championship team in the last 20 years had a relatively new coach lead them there. It is very common for one coach to lay the foundation and then have another coach come in to finish the job.

Quin did the work to get this team to a winning place. He did lay the foundation. He put a system in place and demonstrated how guys like Rudy, and Donovan, and Clarkson can be successful. He got them like 80% of the way there. They just need someone else with some fresh ideas and different leadership style to get them to the next level. I really hope the Jazz have a new coach next year.
 
fishonjazz said:
So my question is, since the jazz are so easy to beat why do teams allow the jazz so many wins and such a high net ranking and allow the jazz to lead the league in scoring?



Sent from my iPad using JazzFanz mobile app
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It's only certain teams that are the Jazz's kryptonite. Teams with a dynamic small-ball 5, who have long, athletic switching defenders. It's why the Jazz can't beat the Miami Heat, and the Lakers are the same when they play Lebron at the 5. It's the scenario the Jazz faced against the Clippers when they played Batum or Morris at the 5. The Jazz are just not the same team against that type of lineup, and the whole league knows it.
 
Given where the Jazz are, the best adjustment to their closing lineup against teams that go small might actually be to take Mike Conley off the floor. The Jazz play Conley and Gobert together as a permanent pick-and-roll combination, but that gets shut down by teams that switch. If Conley can't make a play to beat his defender and break the paint, then we can't rely on him as a primary initiator. The alternative is to treat him as purely an outside shooter and take either Royce or Bojan off the floor. In any case, the Jazz need to put one more guy on the floor who can make a play off the dribble, as Royce, Bojan and Rudy can't do it.

I remember watching Conley play against the Heat earlier this year. He was the smallest player on the floor, and he honestly couldn't do much. He needed a lot of space and could barely get shots off over closeouts from guys like Tyler Herro. Defensively, teams with small-ball 5s cause us problems, but offensively, we get hamstrung by teams that switch and trap.
 
Ferguson_Mellochill said:
You know what would have been a brilliant adjustment tonight? Taking Mike Conley off the floor, playing Mitchell at the 1, and using Eric Paschall as a secondary initiator. Let Paschall drive in the paint and either finish or kick it out. That's how you punish a team going small. Conley wasn't doing anything anyway. The Jazz need to develop Paschall as a point-forward.

The other option, which you'll laugh at, would be to play NAW with Mitchell in a two-guard front.
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We can do that for one game but Conley still would be our long term point guard. unless he gets hurt and takes his scheduled time off then we could be “forced” to do something different.
 
Ferguson_Mellochill said:
Given where the Jazz are, the best adjustment to their closing lineup against teams that go small might actually be to take Mike Conley off the floor. The Jazz play Conley and Gobert together as a permanent pick-and-roll combination, but that gets shut down by teams that switch. If Conley can't make a play to beat his defender and break the paint, then we can't rely on him as a primary initiator. The alternative is to treat him as purely an outside shooter and take either Royce or Bojan off the floor. In any case, the Jazz need to put one more guy on the floor who can make a play off the dribble, as Royce, Bojan and Rudy can't do it.

I remember watching Conley play against the Heat earlier this year. He was the smallest player on the floor, and he honestly couldn't do much. He needed a lot of space and could barely get shots off over closeouts from guys like Tyler Herro. Defensively, teams with small-ball 5s cause us problems, but offensively, we get hamstrung by teams that switch and trap.
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Yep, against small lineup we just fold both offensively and defensively. Guys wanna talk about defense but teams shut us down on offense by going small as well.

Outside of Donovan our offensive players just rely way too much on spacing, mismatch and screen assist, none of those would be available once teams go small and switch on everything.
 
jom2003 said:
Yep, against small lineup we just fold both offensively and defensively. Guys wanna talk about defense but teams shut us down on offense by going small as well.

Outside of Donovan our offensive players just rely way too much on spacing, mismatch and screen assist, none of those would be available once teams go small and switch on everything.
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I think that's actually the biggest problem. Our defense might miss rotations against teams that space the floor, but that alone doesn't give up 16-0 runs. If we could have responded offensively last night, we'd have still won by several possessions. Plus we wouldn't have let the Lakers get out in transition.
 
jom2003 said:
We can do that for one game but Conley still would be our long term point guard. unless he gets hurt and takes his scheduled time off then we could be “forced” to do something different.
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Something has to change in our closing lineup. I don't care if Conley starts games and gets his 27 minutes. Royce, Bojan and Rudy can't play off the dribble. For whatever reason, neither could Mike last night. So someone has to come off the floor in favor of someone else who can drive, pass and shoot.
 
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