Fes did it again!
- Thread starter beware_tony_parker
- Start date
Oh, so NOW +/- means something.
You know I can't talk about that kind of stuff on this forum.
LogGrad98
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Shad
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No but I brought it up cause all the Fes homer's like to mention it when he's the top +.
+/- scale is almost completely useless and we all know how much it really shows.
Guitaro
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Saying it's useless or that it says everything is a bit extreme either way. I find it very interesting. It may not always paint the picture you're looking for, but it can tell you who was playing together and how effective they were. Afterall, we all know that stats don't always tell how effective a player is on the floor. The end result is all that matters.
Consider that sometimes someone's presence on the floor is enough. If you disagree, then just ask yourself, does the opposing team get better or worse just by the mere presence of say, one Bill Russell? How about two Bill Russells? Karl Malone? MJ? Kobe? Or even Rodman? We all know that mind games (confidence) are a very important part of basketball. Even a little doubt can do a lot of damage.
InGameStrategy
Well-Known Member
Given that I'm a good-interior-defense homer, a good-overall-player-impact homer, and a good-game-strategy homer, and not a Fes homer, I'm gonna respond to your flippancy. As of November 21, Fesenko still leads the team in on-court/off-court +/- (which is more in line with what really benefits the team), and his individual rating averaged around what Elson's did. Since then, Elson has started to distinguish himself, and I'm OK with that, although I think that Fes has more overall potential and Elson might or might not be enough against teams with real size or speed. KF's poor shooting is a big strike against him, though. It doesn't mean that he should be just getting bit minutes, as last night showed, when he went 2-2 in a brief cameo and didn't smell the court after that. Fortunately Elson made a big impact, and the coaches still waited too long to make that adjustment, letting the starting frontcourt languish in the first quarter and beyond.
No system is perfect, and your blanket statements without alternative are what is truly useless. We all know how rebounding is useless as a stat; Exhibit A is Boozer, who used padding RBs as a means to conceal his iffy defense. PER is widely known as being offense focused, and about a third of the NBA can show you what scoring is as a useless stat in isolation. +/- is an incomplete measure, but it seeks to capture both a player's individual production and team impact. Do you know what you call the team with a top +/-? A contender.