Flat Tax and Tithing

[Stoked]

Perhaps. But then we get into whether our personalities or certain personality traits are nature or nuture. I am a strong believer that it is both - and in many cases, nature is much more strong than nurture. Determination, focus, hard work, etc. are just as likely to be a product of inherent ability than conditioning.

I agree that it is both, and there is an interaction between them.



I agree.



This is the nostalgia effect. When was there a time when authors in their 60, when writing about the young men in their day, talked about about how responsible they were?

To some degree yes but I also believe there is some merit there. Society has changed and the way of raising children, particularly in the area of discipline, have gotten exceedingly lax. I am by no means an old man but even I can see a gradual shift from parenting to electronic babysitters such as the ipad and smartphones. That vreates a lack of independence in the child, lack of social skills, responsibility and basic courtesy. Our society is changing to instant gratification and the newer generations will continue to suffer for it.

 

[One Brow]

To some degree yes but I also believe there is some merit there. Society has changed and the way of raising children, particularly in the area of discipline, have gotten exceedingly lax. I am by no means an old man but even I can see a gradual shift from parenting to electronic babysitters such as the ipad and smartphones. That vreates a lack of independence in the child, lack of social skills, responsibility and basic courtesy. Our society is changing to instant gratification and the newer generations will continue to suffer for it.

That's just what my grandparents and their siblings used to say about my friends.

 

[leftyjace]

Wow, I've never seen this side of leftyjace.

Well... the last time I was this outspoken I was also dealing with a number of demons that I posted about, and was oftentimes ostracized and ridiculed for the things I posted. (And, well, rightfully so, in some cases.)

I like to think I'm a little more sane since then, and have matured some.

EDIT: I also have an undergrad and grad degree now, whereas previously I thought I knew a lot, but didn't know as much as I thought I did. And yet... I was still right about a lot of things. I predicted that we wouldn't experience a full recovery in the economy until 2013 at the earliest, and that one of our biggest obstacles is and would continue to be deficit spending... and I was right, much to The Pearl's chagrine. He seemed to think that nanotechnology was going to make any worries about excessive deficit spending and the crowding-out affect obsolete.

 

[bordelais7]

I don't have time to reply to most of this, sorry. But to address the question in bold, it's because of discretionary income (or lack thereof). The $10K earner has a much larger fraction of his/her income that goes to the necessities of life such as basic food, basic clothing, basic shelter, basic health care. Maybe there are other basics I'm forgetting. So charging that individual a lower percentage of income tax seems just, to me.

Should LDS members earning less than $30k be exempt from tithing? Not a loaded or leading question, just curious how you would answer this and distinguish the differences.

 

[Dr. Jones]

Should LDS members earning less than $30k be exempt from tithing? Not a loaded or leading question, just curious how you would answer this and distinguish the differences.

Interesting. I know how I would answer.. but curious what Colton says.

 

[Stoked]

That's just what my grandparents and their siblings used to say about my friends.

And I think they have a point. To some degree it is changing.

 

[Stoked]

Should LDS members earning less than $30k be exempt from tithing? Not a loaded or leading question, just curious how you would answer this and distinguish the differences.

No. I say this as a person that used to make less than 30k and paid tithing.

 

[leftyjace]

No. I say this as a person that used to make less than 30k and paid tithing.

VERY interesting.

In the LDS faith, individuals pay tithing in full. After that, if they need additional assistance, it is granted to them through the welfare program, I believe.

Perhaps part of the reason we can't draw analogies between the flat tax and tithing is because our government uses tax exemptions as a form of "relief", alternate to an actual welfare subsidy.

Very interesting turn this convo has taken, yes. Thanks, bordy.

 

[Stoked]

VERY interesting.

In the LDS faith, individuals pay tithing in full. After that, if they need additional assistance, it is granted to them through the welfare program, I believe.

Perhaps part of the reason we can't draw analogies between the flat tax and tithing is because our government uses tax exemptions as a form of "relief", alternate to an actual welfare subsidy.

Very interesting turn this convo has taken, yes. Thanks, bordy.

The way I view it is simple. If I want the benefits of a group or organization then I need to comply with their rules. If the members of a group take care of the group than the group will take care of them.

 

[HipHopAnonymous]

VERY interesting.

In the LDS faith, individuals pay tithing in full. After that, if they need additional assistance, it is granted to them through the welfare program, I believe.

Perhaps part of the reason we can't draw analogies between the flat tax and tithing is because our government uses tax exemptions as a form of "relief", alternate to an actual welfare subsidy.

Very interesting turn this convo has taken, yes. Thanks, bordy.

So tithing is a requirement to get welfare?

 

[Stoked]

So tithing is a requirement to get welfare?

It is not necessarily a requirement. For the church to help you out they like for youu to be contributing to the church. The bext way to do that is be an active member in good standing. That means paying tithing. At the least they have you attend meetings or participate in service activities or something.

 

[Gameface]

So tithing is a requirement to get welfare?

I knew an "LDS" family where the dad was a sleazy car salesman using prescription pain medicine and I think anything else he could get his hands on (for those not in the know on this, prescription pain medicine is heroin that your insurance helps pay for, so it's an attractive option for junkies with insurance. With no insurance heroin off the street gets to be a much better deal and I've seen several pain pill junkies turn into heroin users), his wife also used several hard drugs and they found out their very very pretty 18yo daughter got knocked up and had a heroin problem. I went to the girls wedding a few months later, I think the boys parents own some well-known restaurant chain in town but can't remember which one. Bolerjack was there. I din't talk to him because I'm shy.

Anyway, to the point... The family eventually crashed and burned and needed help. So, even though they weren't really members in good standing and they were surely several years behind on their tithing, the LDS church helped them out, but on the condition that they (pretty much all of them) volunteered time at the free grocery store, or whatever it's called. That and start attending church services and start paying tithing.

So, if you ask for it and play along I'm pretty sure they'll help you out even if you've never paid a cent in tithe. (maybe it didn't hurt that the mom's family is quite wealthy and very involved in the church, but who knows)