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Game 31--Jazz at Houston. (allegedly)

NAOS said:
Stockton attempted 13,658 field goals
He attempted 5,796 free throws

It took me two minutes to find this info on the internet.... less time than it took you to get huffy in your last two posts and then walk away without contributing your own evidence.
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yeah, I looked it up too. But I've kinda got a busy life and don't log on to the site every day. responded elsewhere.

When you find a "bad call" ratio we can discuss. You can find data in the last 2 minute report. But debating using misapplied stats is not my thing, y'all can have at it.
 
silesian said:
that stat tells you how good players are at drawing fouls. It has very little to do with anything else.


The stat you guys are in love with does not support your claim at all. Ratio of field goals to free throws? Y'all serious?

You think the fact that Steph's ratio is unfavorable to Harden's is simply because Harden gets so many bad calls in his favor? Why are the refs biased for Harden and not for Steph? Look at Dirk's ratio. It has nothing to do with referee bias and everything to do with the fact that Dirk creates many shots by creating space (step back) and he shoots from distance.

Y'all are totally missing that the ratio has to do with style of play and a player's ability to draw legitimate fouls. When Harden sweeps through on players who are dumb enough to guard him with their hands forward, it is chicken **** annoying, but it is a correct call.

Comparing Stockton and Harden's ratios is equally silly, comparing a pass-first point guard to a dominant scorer who thrives on contact and going to the rim? Please, you guys are all much smarter than that. Given Stockton's style, he absolutely knew how to draw cheap fouls. If you have not watched him play hundreds of games, just listen to his opponents and teammates. He was brilliant. He's trap an opponent's arm under his arm and pretend he was being held, for example. Had a million tricks, which is why he was widely considered "dirty" (although I thought he was "devious" not "dirty" since he never hurt anyone).
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Lol.
Ya Stockton got the same star calls as harden gets. Lol.

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silesian said:
yeah, I looked it up too. But I've kinda got a busy life and don't log on to the site every day. responded elsewhere.

When you find a "bad call" ratio we can discuss. You can find data in the last 2 minute report. But debating using misapplied stats is not my thing, y'all can have at it.
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I’m staying way out of this. But from what I can tell, it’s you who opened the can of worms.
 
silesian said:
Who said that? Are you arguing with an imaginary friend?


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We were talking about how the refs treat harden better than guys like LeBron, Kobe, Malone, Jordan etc. How no one has ever gotten more superstar calls than harden and it isn't close.

Then you brought up how Stockton exploited the refs too. Why would you bring that up unless you were comparing the two? Of course Stockton exploits the refs. Literally every player in the NBA does. Hell every player in recreation leagues and church ball does.

The point was that harden gets treated better by the refs than everyone else.

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fishonjazz said:
We were talking about how the refs treat harden better than guys like LeBron, Kobe, Malone, Jordan etc. How no one has ever gotten more superstar calls than harden and it isn't close.

Then you brought up how Stockton exploited the refs too. Why would you bring that up unless you were comparing the two? Of course Stockton exploits the refs. Literally every player in the NBA does. Hell every player in recreation leagues and church ball does.

The point was that harden gets treated better by the refs than everyone else.

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Yeah, you missed my point be a thousand country miles. If you want to re-read then we can continue the discussion. If not, have a nice day and Merry Christmas.
 
NAOS said:
I’m staying way out of this. But from what I can tell, it’s you who opened the can of worms.
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Yeah, I said the stat folks are using to "prove" referee bias does no such thing. If it did, you would have to believe that Harden got on the order of ~3,000 more blown calls than Michael freakin Jordan (see note). And I am sure you all believe that MJ got highly favorable treatment by the refs.

Think about this, guys, style of play and ability to exploit the rules are the drivers.

note: rough estimate based on difference between made FT and made FG, divided by 2. Far from precise due to missed FTs, 3-point plays, etc, but it is in this magnitude.
 
silesian said:
Yeah, you missed my point be a thousand country miles. If you want to re-read then we can continue the discussion. If not, have a nice day and Merry Christmas.
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If I missed your point then why not explain your point to me better.

I thought your point was that Stockton exploited the refs too (I agree) and that the calls harden gets are legit (I disagree)
Here is your post.

News flash: Most of the fouls against Harden are actually fouls. Most of the times fans think Harden is traveling, he is not (one notable exception on blown call yesterday). Most fans do not remotely understand the traveling rules.

There was another guy who knew exactly how to exploit the rules and draw fouls in underhanded ways. His last name was Stockton.

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fishonjazz said:
If I missed your point then why not explain your point to me better.

I thought your point was that Stockton exploited the refs too (I agree) and that the calls harden gets are legit (I disagree)
Here is your post.

News flash: Most of the fouls against Harden are actually fouls. Most of the times fans think Harden is traveling, he is not (one notable exception on blown call yesterday). Most fans do not remotely understand the traveling rules.

There was another guy who knew exactly how to exploit the rules and draw fouls in underhanded ways. His last name was Stockton.

Sent from my ONEPLUS A6013 using JazzFanz mobile app
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First, since you agree with what I said about Stockton, how you do conclude from this that "Stockton got the same star calls as Harden"

Second, I am arguing that star calls are exaggerated, how you can conclude that Stockton got the same star calls? This is the opposite of my point.



I'll stand by what I said, most of the fouls against Harden are actually fouls.
 
silesian said:
First, since you agree with what I said about Stockton, how you do conclude from this that "Stockton got the same star calls as Harden"

Second, I am arguing that star calls are exaggerated, how you can conclude that Stockton got the same star calls? This is the opposite of my point.



I'll stand by what I said, most of the fouls against Harden are actually fouls.
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Why did you bring up Stockton when we were talking about harden?

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SoUjazzfan said:
I'm not certain why more players don't take hard fouls on Harden. He's getting the call, so put him on his arse five or six times a game. Maybe it would make him think a little before pulling his antics!
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I'm not into hurting players, but forreal, the guy wants to draw fouls, give him a foul. He isn't tough. He can't actually handle real contact.
 
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