Gamethread: Jazz v Lakers. 7pm MST.

[fishonjazz]

I don't even understand what you're talking about right now.

We're talking about why he isn't playing relative to his drafted position, thus, the differences are important.

Well that is simple
He isn't playing relative to his drafted position because he isn't good.

All the excuses of edgy he isn't good don't really matter

We could make different excuses for every bad player in the nba as to why they are bad

Exums excuse is that he played high school bball in Australia. Doesn't change the fact that he is playing basketball poorly

 

[stitches]

I didn't have high expectations for exum this year.

I also didn't expect our #5 pick that we tanked for to be the worst rookie in the history of the nba.

I would be fine with his play if he was picked at the very end of the 2nd round though

He was drafted on what he could be, not on what he is right now. Also... basketball is played on both ends of the floor, so he's not the worst rookie in the history of the NBA, he's not even the worst rookie this year. PER is a stat that puts a lot of emphasis on offensive performance and struggles to adequately evaluate defensive performance.

Here's some advanced stats of the rookies this year: click here

Dante is 42 out of 74 rookies this season in win shares. Zach Lavine is dead last.
In BPM he's 36 out of 74. In VORP he's towards the end.

In RPM(click here), he's in the middle of the pack at 51st out of 104 all SGs in the league(I don't know why he's listed as a SG). If you list him as a PG he'd still be 52nd out of 92 PGs in the league.
In WAR, he's 46th out of 104 SGs, or 52and out of 92 PGs.

What to me is the most interesting stat is that he's the only player in our regular rotation(edit: actually along with Millsap) who's on the plus side(on +/-) when on the court:
https://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/UTA/2015/on-off/

Even Hayward is on the negative. He also has a +6.5 on/off balance(second only to Hayward). This might be explained by Quin putting him in situations to succeed and not letting him stay in the game too long when things get ugly, it also might have something to do with matching him with Hayward and Gobert a lot, but still the sample is large enough to take it seriously(about 41% of Dante's minutes are without Hayward and about 40% of his minutes are without Gobert). At the very least what you can say is he's not hurting the team overall. What he lacks in offense he seems to make up in defense.

With all that said, his offensive performance worries me a lot. I really hope he makes a big jump next year.

 

[Hantlers]

Well that is simple
He isn't playing relative to his drafted position because he isn't good.

All the excuses of edgy he isn't good don't really matter

We could make different excuses for every bad player in the nba as to why they are bad

Exums excuse is that he played high school bball in Australia. Doesn't change the fact that he is playing basketball poorly

I'm not sure if you're being dense on purpose, or if it's just natural. The excuses DO matter, because they all point to the fact that he needs time. So basically, quit being impatient bitches and just deal with it.

 

[Ron Mexico]

People get waaaayyyyy to into their stats on this board. I guess thats what you do when you are an internet sports fan, look for stats to help your argument. Or read some random article that quotes some stat and go overboard about what it says.

 

[fishonjazz]

He was drafted on what he could be, not on what he is right now. Also... basketball is played on both ends of the floor, so he's not the worst rookie in the history of the NBA, he's not even the worst rookie this year. PER is a stat that puts a lot of emphasis on offensive performance and struggles to adequately evaluate defensive performance.

Here's some advanced stats of the rookies this year: click here

Dante is 42 out of 74 rookies this season in win shares. Zach Lavine is dead last.
In BPM he's 36 out of 74. In VORP he's towards the end.

In RPM(click here), he's in the middle of the pack at 51st out of 104 all SGs in the league(I don't know why he's listed as a SG). If you list him as a PG he'd still be 52nd out of 92 PGs in the league.
In WAR, he's 46th out of 104 SGs, or 52and out of 92 PGs.

What to me is the most interesting stat is that he's the only player in our regular rotation(edit: actually along with Millsap) who's on the plus side(on +/-) when on the court:
https://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/UTA/2015/on-off/

Even Hayward is on the negative. He also has a +6.5 on/off balance. This might be explained by Quin putting him in situations to succeed and not letting him stay in the game too long when things get ugly, it also might have something to do with matching him with Hayward and Gobert a lot, but still the sample is large enough to take it seriously(about 41% of Dante's minutes are without Hayward and about 40% of his minutes are without Gobert).

Good post

I will say that darko was drafted on what he could become, so was kwame, olawakandi and basically every high draft pick under 20 years old fire the most part.

I liked the stats you posted though and that is very compelling to make me change my stance.

Also I do really like his defense.

His lack of free throws attempts is a negative thing though right? Or is that actually positive too and it just shows that he is patient?

 

[Jamezz]

People get waaaayyyyy to into their stats on this board. I guess thats what you do when you are an internet sports fan, look for stats to help your argument. Or read some random article that quotes some stat and go overboard about what it says.

Ironically enough, some of these posters who try to backup their arguments with stats also whine about Locke doing the same thing. Stats can be manipulated to work in your favor, there are so many other variables like if you're playing against the 1st or 2nd units, who are you playing along with, chemistry etc...

 

[fishonjazz]

People get waaaayyyyy to into their stats on this board. I guess thats what you do when you are an internet sports fan, look for stats to help your argument. Or read some random article that quotes some stat and go overboard about what it says.

Are you trying to say that I don't watch the games? Lol if that's what you are saying.

I don't miss jazz games..... I don't miss summer league games, pre season games, I go to every scrimmage every year... I watch every jazz related thing possible bro.
Don't question my fandom. You go to far

 

[Ron Mexico]

Are you trying to say that I don't watch the games? Lol if that's what you are saying.

I don't miss jazz games..... I don't miss summer league games, pre season games, I go to every scrimmage every year... I watch every jazz related thing possible bro.
Don't question my fandom. You go to far

I didnt quote you are say anything about not watching games. Just saying this board in general puts a lot of their stock in what some random stat says.

 

[fishonjazz]

I'm not sure if you're being dense on purpose, or if it's just natural. The excuses DO matter, because they all point to the fact that he needs time. So basically, quit being impatient bitches and just deal with it.

Ya he needs time. I never argue that.
Hayward needed time, Burks needed time (still does imo) favors needed time, rudy was considered to need LOTS of time when he was drafted and was thought to be a project who was super raw.
Are you really dense enough to think that I'm arguing that exum DOESN'T need more time.
Of course he does.
We agree on that 100%

 

[Ron Mexico]

Hawks should have dumped Dennis in a dumpster fire and called him a bust last season too right? That 5.8 per for a rookie = bust.

 

[fishonjazz]

I didnt quote you are say anything about not watching games. Just saying this board in general puts a lot of their stock in what some random stat says.

Oh I agree.
But even watching the games it seems like he doesn't belong in the nba at all yet.
Less than the other guys his age.
I guess for now we just chalk it up to his Australian high school basketball background and just assume that he will turn into a star player because that is just what happens

 

[JAZZGASM]

I have seen Exum steadily improve this year. He has great speed, length and vision/passing. i have full confidence he will become a very good player.