General NBA 2017-2018 Season Thread

[BTP]

I really like Klay in the ASG for a simple reason: What he does is something very few players can do, especially reaching his level of unselfishness...
A lot of players can be first options and fill that role successfully, but for a player who could be a first option to do the unselfish thing and be a third option that creates room for other ball handlers and to defend hard is rare. You can see with a lot of those "Big3" ensembles this year that sharing a basketball is actually hard. The Wolves have problems to find and accept roles(First Butler looked off, then Towns for a while and now Wiggins), same goes for the Thunder, who are slowly starting to figure things out, but early season Westbrook was awful. The energy he could save on offense didn't translate into better off the ball movement and more defensive effort. How Boston will look once Hayward is back healthy remains to be seen, but I think it'll be a cleaner look due to Horford's versatility, Philly could easily run into issues there as well long term.

On the other hand when teams have high level performer, who specialize on defense, the look is much cleaner, if you remember last year's Clips, this year's Rockets, the Raptors...Thompson just does so much more by actively contributing offensively in a way that it doesn't diminish what the playmakers do. That's huge!

 

[The Midnight]

I really like Klay in the ASG for a simple reason: What he does is something very few players can do, especially reaching his level of unselfishness...
A lot of players can be first options and fill that role successfully, but for a player who could be a first option to do the unselfish thing and be a first option that creates room for other ball handlers and to defend hard is rare. You can see with a lot of those "Big3" ensembles this year that sharing a basketball is actually hard. The Wolves have problems to find and accept roles(First Butler looked off, then Towns for a while and now Wiggins), same goes for the Thunder, who are slowly starting to figure things out, but early season Westbrook was awful. The energy he could save on offense didn't translate into better off the ball movement and more defensive effort. How Boston will look once Hayward is back healthy remains to be seen, but I think it'll be a cleaner look due to Horford's versatility, Philly could easily run into issues there as well long term.

On the other hand when teams have high level performer, who specialize on defense, the look is much cleaner, if you remember last year's Clips, this year's Rockets, the Raptors...Thompson just does so much more by actively contributing offensively in a way that it doesn't diminish what the playmakers do. That's huge!

Thank you.

 

[Ron Mexico]

Lets compare what some players that didnt make it to Klay. Booker, CJ and Gordon.

Klay scored the second least out of the group and the least per 100 possessions.

Klay was assisted on more shots than anyone else in that group.

Klay created the least amount of offense for himself.

Klay has the lowest steal percentage

Klay has the lowest assist percentage

Klay has the second lowest PER

Klay has the most talent on his team and is the least important player to that team winning or not.

Then there are a bunch of stats that he is in the middle at of that pack.

They only thing he is definitively better at this year is his 3 point shooting percentage. But again he has the easiest shots, he does not create them he is assisted on almost all of them (leads the league in this for qualified players) and is wide open for them most of the time.

Klay Shoots 1.1 shots per game that are considered very tight shot where a defender is within 2 feet of him. He shoots 9.1 shots per game that are wide open where there is no defender within 4+ feet of him. Booker shoots 9.8 of his shots that are tightly contest, that is almost half of his shots. Where over half of Klays shots are open. CJ shoots 8.3 of his 18 shots per game that are that are tightly contest. He gets a bunch that are in that open window 4-6 but almost never gets wide open shots.

Durant and Curry lead the team with very contested shots and lead their team in the FG percentage on those shots. Klay is at the bottom of his team on those shots FG%, the only ones worse are Zaza and Livington. Klay is also towards the bottom of the list on his team FG% on tight shots. On his open shots he gets a lot of them but still isnt terribly good on those shots at only 42%, where guys like Durant are more than 10% higher. Where Klay really shines is on wide open shots where he gets a lot of his shots and his FG% sky rockets to 58.2.

Klays shooting percentages would come waaaaayyyyyyyyy down if he had to shoot contested shots as much as others on his team or the others we are comparing.

Klay is a league leader in FG% on wide open shots and get gets a lot of them. He has very little pressure on him and can just focus on shooting open shots.

Again, I like Klay but I dont think he deserves an all-star spot. He doesnt do much for that team besides shoot open assisted shots.

Although if you had Hill, CJ, CJ Miles, Oladipo, Belinelli, Lyles, Lou, Mirotic or some others taking the kind of 3 point shots Klay gets they would be shooting higher percentages on 3s than Klay based on stats.

There is a also a solid argument against Draymond as well.

Durant and Curry are the reason GS is incredibly good this year and it is that way by a long shot. Years past should not matter for this year All-star game. Durant and Curry could be put on a decent D-League team and still be competitive and probably win the championship.

 

[Ron Mexico]

I really like Klay in the ASG for a simple reason: What he does is something very few players can do, especially reaching his level of unselfishness...
A lot of players can be first options and fill that role successfully, but for a player who could be a first option to do the unselfish thing and be a third option that creates room for other ball handlers and to defend hard is rare. You can see with a lot of those "Big3" ensembles this year that sharing a basketball is actually hard. The Wolves have problems to find and accept roles(First Butler looked off, then Towns for a while and now Wiggins), same goes for the Thunder, who are slowly starting to figure things out, but early season Westbrook was awful. The energy he could save on offense didn't translate into better off the ball movement and more defensive effort. How Boston will look once Hayward is back healthy remains to be seen, but I think it'll be a cleaner look due to Horford's versatility, Philly could easily run into issues there as well long term.

On the other hand when teams have high level performer, who specialize on defense, the look is much cleaner, if you remember last year's Clips, this year's Rockets, the Raptors...Thompson just does so much more by actively contributing offensively in a way that it doesn't diminish what the playmakers do. That's huge!

So he deserves an All-star for deciding to be a role player and be unselfish? He chooses to just shoot open shots and do very little to get in the way of better players so he should be an all-star over players doing a lot more to help their team win because they dont have better players?

Sorry, there are more deserving players. GS doesn't deserve 4 all-stars. They deserve 2 and maybe if there isn't much of another choice certain years or an injury sub 3.

 

[The Midnight]

Again, I like Klay.

I don't think that you do....

 

[The Midnight]

Aren't the reserves voted in by the Coaches?


Are we to think we know better than them about who should be an All Star?

 

[Ron Mexico]

I don't think that you do....

Well, you would be wrong..... Again.

 

[The Midnight]

Well, you would be wrong..... Again.

So... you think the Coaches are ALL wrong to have voted him in?

 

[Ron Mexico]

So... you think the Coaches are ALL wrong to have voted him in?

Yes.

I thought that was obvious when I said I didnt think he should be an all-star.

I also think Coaches are not great at picking all-stars. But neither are players, fans, and a lot of the media people.

 

[The Midnight]

Yes.

I thought that was obvious when I said I didnt think he should be an all-star.

I also think Coaches are not great at picking all-stars. But neither are players, fans, and a lot of the media people.

Yeah, you've convinced me. You're SOOOO right... Eric Gordon should have been picked instead.


*slow clap*

 

[Ron Mexico]

Yeah, you've convinced me. You're SOOOO right... Eric Gordon should have been picked instead.


*slow clap*

He wouldnt be my choice over Klay either, there are others more deserving but he is just as qualified as Klay and his team is more deserving of another all-star.

But way to pick the one player you felt least deserving and argue it to try and make your argument stronger. It didn't work but its a good ole predicable technique.

I simply started with there are players more deserving and there are. I threw out a few but you picked that one.

I still think he is more deserving along with the others I listed, such as Mitchell. Who is doing a lot more for the Jazz than Klay is for GS and putting up better stats while being the focal point of other teams defenses unlike Klay who is an after thought when GS has 3 better players to deal with.


Good night though One Love, its been a fun discussion.

I obviously had no intention of changing your mind, since that is impossible. No one digs in more than you. I just wanted to rant about something I dislike and you were helpful for me to make some points to.

 

[The Midnight]

He wouldnt be my choice over Klay either, there are others more deserving but he is just as qualified as Klay and his team is more deserving of another all-star.

But way to pick the one player you felt least deserving and argue it to try and make your argument stronger. It didn't work but its a good ole predicable technique.

I simply started with there are players more deserving and there are. I threw out a few but you picked that one.

I still think he is more deserving along with the others I listed, such as Mitchell. Who is doing a lot more for the Jazz than Klay is for GS and putting up better stats while being the focal point of other teams defenses unlike Klay who is an after thought when GS has 3 better players to deal with.


Good night though One Love, its been a fun discussion.

I obviously had no intention of changing your mind, since that is impossible. No one digs in more than you. I just wanted to rant about something I dislike and you were helpful for me to make some points to.

Yup always fun chatting with you. Our last chat was about, what, something to do with airline tickets and refunds or something? Seems we always run into some random topics. FWIW I don't think Klay deserves it neither TBFHWY, just wanted to see your argument, you made some great points.