I would agree that it would make only a small difference.
Got into a pretty heated debate with my wife last night about race.
- Thread starter Beer
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I would agree that it would make only a small difference.
Beer
Well-Known Member
And I feel like we, or I, have went off into the weeds to the point of my original posts. There are so many different pieces to this puzzle but it feels like the media, or society in general, want to latch onto a few of the louder more sensational talking points and act like they are the absolute cause of these issues. Especially when it can paint one side of the argument evil. When in reality there are 100 different pieces, and usually it's the less sexy ones that imo at least, are the real issues that need to be fixed.
For example, family support would do a whole hell of a lot more to fix the minority education issue than pumping more money into a school that is failing. Now that itself takes us down another rabbit hole as to why the family isn't as supportive, a lot of which is caused by systematic racism over the years, war on drugs, etc .... but also 66% of black families are single parent households (compared to 41% hispanic and 33% white) which makes it very difficult for that single parent to be active in their child's education. And not all of that is due to white oppression, sure it plays a large part but at some point you have to take ownership and change things you can control. If you are waiting for white people and or the govt to fix things you are going to be waiting for an eternity and you will never get out of your bad situation. Never ever ever.
We as white people need to recognize, and I do, that we have put the black race at a serious disadvantage over the last 300 years, and do what we can to help. But a group as a whole can only be lifted so much by outside forces. If they want things to change, it has to be up to them, and us supporting them along the way.
Sorry, if you think I'm a racist. I'm not. I just want solutions to be found and uncomfortable conversations with real data and information is vital to that.
Edit: and in more urban area's that 66% rises to almost 80%. Not good and is recipe for continued failings.
NAOS
Well-Known Member
Has the word “capitalism” appeared in this thread once? If we’re looking for nuances and branching points in our phenomenon of systemic racism, then a study of capitalism is necessary. While white hands have attempted to grasp and hold the reins of our capitalism, it is not true that those hands (or those of any other potential human aggregate/political block) entirely control its movements and transformations.
Not only does capitalism play a major role in producing the outcomes we continue to see, but it also plays a role in our forgetting history, and trying to come up with solutions that are ignorant of important historical causes that should be addressed... that is, if we actually want to successfully transform society.
Not only does capitalism play a major role in producing the outcomes we continue to see, but it also plays a role in our forgetting history, and trying to come up with solutions that are ignorant of important historical causes that should be addressed... that is, if we actually want to successfully transform society.
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Beer
Well-Known Member
IDK, I'm not a fan of capitalist ideals but I also am not a fan of the counter-point to capitalism. So I'm not sure where that leaves me or you on it. It is an interesting convo for sure.
NAOS
Well-Known Member
I don’t think the discussion needs to be framed in binary terms: capitalism or counter-capitalism. The history of capitalism shows a spectrum of rapaciousness.
New Zealand has pointed their whole market-based system toward different goals. I’ll be watching.
Runaway accumulation and deregulation are not good ideas.
This is focused on a very narrow conception of family. If a "single parent" is living with their mother, their sibling, etc., they still have family support. There is also greater community support in urban areas than suburban, from what I can tell. One of the reasons that black middle class families don't build wealth as much as white middle-class families is that the black families are more likely to help out other people in their neighborhood.
We're all raised with racist notions, and we all struggle with them.
Going back to the original post, in addition to what people have said about your grandfather not having the opportunity to lease that land if he were black, did you realize that successful black businesses were also frequently destroyed or taken over by whites after they became successful?
Beer
Well-Known Member
I'm not saying they don't have support or their family doesn't care about them. I'm saying it is so so so much harder for a single parent to have the time and energy to dedicate to helping a child with schoolwork than a more traditional family. If you are working 2 jobs, or working nights, its going to be extremely difficult for a single parent to dedicate significant time and energy into homework, testing, outside of class learning, etc .... And I'm sure the neighborhood cares about each other, but once again, a neighbor isn't going to take an active interest in a neighbors kids schoolwork 99% of the time.
As far as your 2nd point, sure, maybe, possibly. Would like to see anything substantial back that up though.
And as far as your last paragraph, yes I am aware of that happening. I do not believe it was a constant though. Maybe not an outlier either but not a majority occurence either.
Youre either racist or extremely stupid. Take your pick.
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So you're just guessing?
YEah bruh, we can tell from your post that nuance and thinking about issues critically isnt your strong suit.
Like dont even ****ing bring up family support in the black community if you arent going to discuss THE CLEAR FACTS of unequal punishments for the same offenses and how the War on Drugs has decimated the black family and then act like "Well it's up to them".
Beer: But black people need to take ownership...