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Grade the Trade

Hack said:
That's why Orlando does it. We do it because we are smarter than them and we take the risk and watch it pay off.

Look at OKC giving away Harden for the same dumb reason.

Plain and simple you just have to smarter, luckier, and bolder than the rest to get ahead. Can't be scared and conservative.
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Fournier is not comparable to Harden, not in the slightest. Having to overpay for Fournier because you gave up Burke, Burks, and multiple firsts for him doesn't seem smart, nor bold. Definitely would need a lot of luck to make it be worth it though we can agree on that.
 
This salary cap environment is going to be insane... no joke Evan may get 15-20 per depending on how he plays this year.
 
Handlogten's Heros said:
Ummm harden and EF are not really close... like at all. It is good to take some risks sure, but you could also be stupid as hell and end up broke and alone... go ask Nets fans what that is like.
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They aren't the same. Harden is definitely better. But Fournier is pretty damn good still. He doesn't have to be on Harden's level for it to be worth it. If he ends up as good as Hayward and Hood or even a little better, than that's pretty dang good.
 
Find some way to get Anthony bennett instead
 
Hack said:
That number isn't even what's important. It's important to trade up assets if you can. Gives us another leg to stand on going into the next season and next season.


Not everything is about right now.
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So the idea is to pay a premium upfront, take on a terrible 3 year contract of an over the hill vet, increase the win total by 10(reduce the value of the draft pick), not make the playoffs - all for the chance to match whichever contract Fournier can find in the offseason???


And that's a better course of action than just trying to be the highest bidder?? While Burke and Burks will cost 13mil?? (potentially less than 15% of the cap)



Like I said originally. Terrible Idea. It's obviously a panicked one.
 
Handlogten's Heros said:
This salary cap environment is going to be insane... no joke Evan may get 15-20 per depending on how he plays this year.
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So if he's capable of getting that, doesn't that make him a pretty good player to go after?

There aren't going to be that many players you can get that will be as good as him. Most restricted free agents just get matched, especially if they are good.

This is sort of a unique scenario that presents a possible opportunity.

It has happens all the time. Teams make mistakes and let the wrong players go, or trade the wrong player. Find yourself on the right end of that someday if you can.

The Jazz don't take enough chances imo.
 
Hack said:
So if he's capable of getting that, doesn't that make him a pretty good player to go after?

There aren't going to be that many players you can get that will be as good as him. Most restricted free agents just get matched, especially if they are good.

This is sort of a unique scenario that presents a possible opportunity.

It has happens all the time. Teams make mistakes and let the wrong players go, or trade the wrong player. Find yourself on the right end of that someday if you can.

The Jazz don't take enough chances imo.
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Not necessarily, everybody has the money so he will definitely get overpaid.

Also if you're, let's say Portland cause they enjoy doing this, you offer him the max or close to it cause you know how the Jazz couldn't give up all those assets and let him walk.
 
Hack said:
So if he's capable of getting that, doesn't that make him a pretty good player to go after?

There aren't going to be that many players you can get that will be as good as him. Most restricted free agents just get matched, especially if they are good.

This is sort of a unique scenario that presents a possible opportunity.

It has happens all the time. Teams make mistakes and let the wrong players go, or trade the wrong player. Find yourself on the right end of that someday if you can.

The Jazz don't take enough chances imo.
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I agree with some of what you are saying but this particular idea not so much. He will get a lot of money because of a weird cap quirk. Because the cap explodes many teams will have or can make cap space. More suitors drives the price up... the price for players next year will be higher than it should be. If we were going to go get someone it should have been this summer. EF next contract will bump in with mega max contracts for G-time and Favs (like $30M) and hood, gobert, and Exum extensions.
 
Hack said:
So if he's capable of getting that, doesn't that make him a pretty good player to go after?
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Not necessarily, TristanThompsonEnesKanter
 
On second thought, do we want to have to re-sign him for say 18M, as well as Hayward, Gobert, and Favors at about 25M+ each. That's almost 100M in just four guys...and doesn't consider Hood or Exum.

I think I'd rather get a vet to steady the ship at pg.

What about Darren Collison (28 yo, 45.9%/38.5%/) who is riding the bench in Sactown? He makes a lot of sense. Or will once the winter rolls around. And he makes just over 5M and has this year and next left on his contract. Not bad at all.
 
Cunning Linguist said:
On second thought, do we want to have to re-sign him for say 18M, as well as Hayward, Gobert, and Favors at about 25M+ each. That's almost 100M in just four guys...and doesn't consider Hood or Exum.

I think I'd rather get a vet to steady the ship at pg.

What about Darren Collison (28 yo, 45.9%/38.5%/) who is riding the bench in Sactown? He makes a lot of sense. Or will once the winter rolls around. And he makes just over 5M and has this year and next left on his contract. Not bad at all.
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Darren Collison would be fantastic for the Jazz. Not flashy but he is efficient and has been productive in limited minutes. No nonsense, team first guy as well.


Not sure why the Kings would let him go though, I don't think they fully trust Rondo & his lack of shooting.
 
Handlogten's Heros said:
I agree with some of what you are saying but this particular idea not so much. He will get a lot of money because of a weird cap quirk. Because the cap explodes many teams will have or can make cap space. More suitors drives the price up... the price for players next year will be higher than it should be. If we were going to go get someone it should have been this summer. EF next contract will bump in with mega max contracts for G-time and Favs (like $30M) and hood, gobert, and Exum extensions.
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Nah.

No matter what the cap is in any given year, even in the next few years, a guy like him will still get a lot. Teams are starved of talent. Ridiculous contracts will still exist. If we want a good player that can help now it will have to be an overpay regardless. That's if you can even get them to sign here. A trade like this might be the only way to snag one.

Again, at some point it would be wise to take a chance. Having all these random assets doesn't do us much good. Help on the court would be nice. If we can upgrade to a very good player, who looks like he would play well with our team and what we are trying to do, then that's what we need to do.
 
ONE LOVE said:
Darren Collison would be fantastic for the Jazz. Not flashy but he is efficient and has been productive in limited minutes. No nonsense, team first guy as well.


Not sure why the Kings would let him go though, I don't think they fully trust Rondo & his lack of shooting.
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We'd have to probably throw in the OKC pick but they may trade him if he grows disgruntled and wants to start. Burke and OKC pick for Collison.
 
Hack said:
Nah.

No matter what the cap is in any given year, even in the next few years, a guy like him will still get a lot. Teams are starved of talent. Ridiculous contracts will still exist. If we want a good player that can help now it will have to be an overpay regardless. That's if you can even get them to sign here. A trade like this might be the only way to snag one.

Again, at some point it would be wise to take a chance. Having all these random assets doesn't do us much good. Help on the court would be nice. If we can upgrade to a very good player, who looks like he would play well with our team and what we are trying to do, then that's what we need to do.
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I'm not sure you understand basic economics.
 
Gordon Hayward appeared to be getting a too big yo contract. He got the max. It paid off. The exact same thing can happen with Fournier. It would just be a max contract in relation to the salary cap that year. It's no different than any other year.

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Hack said:
Gordon Hayward appeared to be getting a too big yo contract. He got the max. It paid off. The exact same thing can happen with Fournier. It would just be a max contract in relation to the salary cap that year. It's no different than any other year.

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It's more costly than just a max. It is a max, plus multiple assets, including Burks who will be making half the salary. Different situation entirely than Gordon.
 
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