Guns

[Stoked]

Has this happened in nations with tighter regulations for drinking and driving?

Man. Do Americans forget that there are 200 other countries in the world?

We don't forget. It's just that only another dozen matter. Kind of...

 

[Gameface]

I'm all for stiffer penalties for drunk driving. And by that I mean stiffer penalties for people who are severely drunk. I personally think 0.08BAC is a low threshold and the penalties for a 0.08BAC to 0.12BAC should be lower than they are now, although still significant. Then, the penalties from 0.13BAC to 0.18BAC should be made more significant and penalties above 0.19BAC should be very severe.

Hopefully self-driving cars get here soon and it's not so much of an issue anymore.

I believe that texting while driving should carry the exact same penalties as I'd propose for someone with a 0.13BAC, because they are actually far more impaired than a person with that level of alcohol content.

As far as the new gun regulation. Meh. I have made several private firearm sales. I have never been in the business of selling firearms. I'm pretty sure this new law would not have applied to me, although one problem with this new law is that it is vague. I actually would have preferred the President make it simple and require a background check for all firearms sales, which is not at all what happened here. The "gun show loophole" has not been closed, it's just been given fuzzier edges.

 

[JAZZGASM]

1) are you able to read? I'll restate my question to save you some difficulty: find one country with US-level gun access with low homicide rates. I'll wait.
2) i thought you were arguing for alcohol prohibition or something (to make a silly, flawed point). I am 100% for a government enhancing sentencing for drunk driving in America. Not sure what that very obvious conclusion has to do with guns.

First off, I'm not sure you can read. My original post clearly stated that I am willing to give up guns to save lives. That is not the issue AT ALL. The issue is guns are constitutionally protected in this country, and let's be realistic, a ban or severe restrictions is an uphill climb. I think banning guns completely or even severe restrictions will be next to impossible in the U.S. because of the Constitution and the court cases interpreting the 2nd Amendment. Not saying we shouldn't try.

You response is an impossibility and you know it. No countries have access to guns at the level we do, and none have the level of Constitutional protection that we do. Iceland, per capita, has the 2nd highest ownership, and next to no homicides. Studies have shown that the up to half of all gun murders in the US are drug related. The USA borders Mexico which gives access to drug runners. We are situated much differently than many other countries.

My point is, if saving lives REALLY mattered, we would go after senseless alcohol deaths too. We would focus on mental health improvements instead of discouraging people from seeking medical help (Doctors can now report you to the FBI to restrict your right to own a gun if you seek help for mental issues) Again, your response is other countries with similar access to alcohol have fewer deaths. So ****ing what? The USA has more access to cars and we drive more mileage than citizens of other countries. And our laws on drunk driving are very lax.

I don't care about comparisons. I care about lives. Do you not see the hypocrisy? I understand many people will still drive without a license, but I guarantee far fewer would if the penalty was extreme. People do it because they know there are limited consequences.

 

[JAZZGASM]

I'm all for stiffer penalties for drunk driving. And by that I mean stiffer penalties for people who are severely drunk. I personally think 0.08BAC is a low threshold and the penalties for a 0.08BAC to 0.12BAC should be lower than they are now, although still significant. Then, the penalties from 0.13BAC to 0.18BAC should be made more significant and penalties above 0.19BAC should be very severe.

Hopefully self-driving cars get here soon and it's not so much of an issue anymore.

I believe that texting while driving should carry the exact same penalties as I'd propose for someone with a 0.13BAC, because they are actually far more impaired than a person with that level of alcohol content.

As far as the new gun regulation. Meh. I have made several private firearm sales. I have never been in the business of selling firearms. I'm pretty sure this new law would not have applied to me, although one problem with this new law is that it is vague. I actually would have preferred the President make it simple and require a background check for all firearms sales, which is not at all what happened here. The "gun show loophole" has not been closed, it's just been given fuzzier edges.

Agreed. Getting pulled over at .08 should be penalized, but for people that get pulled over at 3x the limit should get no breaks. No excuse.

As far as the executive action, President's have had that power for a long time. Obama just pushes the limit, which is not a good thing in my opinion. It just erodes the checks and balances that our system of government has.

 

[JAZZGASM]

Or, and much more likely, there is suddenly an even bigger mountain of unlicensed drivers. Much like the theme of "make find illegal and only criminals will have guns", if you take all these licenses away, you'll end up with unlicensed drivers.

I think the penalty for drunk driving should be severe. Maybe not jail, but a GPS tracking anklet and loss of license. That way a probation officer or other official could track your movement and check to see if you are driving. Again, we have to decide the value of a life. I think putting more people in jail for risking my life is reasonable.

Once we have these systems in place, the number of drunk drivers will decrease, and probably by a lot. There are not a lot of consequences for drunk driving. A guy I know has 3 DUI's with very little consequences (did lose license for a year).

 

[fishonjazz]

There are not a lot of consequences for drunk driving.

I disagree.
A friend of mine got pulled over drunk driving and went to jail, lost his job (couldn't show up for work cause he was in jail), and had to pay about $10,000 in court costs and fines.

Totally ruined his life.

 

[b_line]

I disagree.
A friend of mine got pulled over drunk driving and went to jail, lost his job (couldn't show up for work cause he was in jail), and had to pay about $10,000 in court costs and fines.

Totally ruined his life.

On a Friday night it would have been a lot different. Unless he works weekends. But you get the picture.

 

[fishonjazz]

On a Friday night it would have been a lot different. Unless he works weekends. But you get the picture.

I still think that 10,000 dollars and time in jail is a big deterrent

 

[RJF]

I still think that 10,000 dollars and time in jail is a big deterrent

I think repeat offenses should carry stiffer penalties. I remember reading about a man in Utah that had 4-5 DUI convictions and was still a free man. Don't know if he was licensed to drive or not but I don't think he should have been outside jail/prison walls.

 

[Stoked]

I disagree.
A friend of mine got pulled over drunk driving and went to jail, lost his job (couldn't show up for work cause he was in jail), and had to pay about $10,000 in court costs and fines.

Totally ruined his life.

I see this and then I see a headline about the "Afluenza" teen and get pissed.

 

[fishonjazz]

I think repeat offenses should carry stiffer penalties. I remember reading about a man in Utah that had 4-5 DUI convictions and was still a free man. Don't know if he was licensed to drive or not but I don't think he should have been outside jail/prison walls.

I agree.

 

[Stoked]

I think repeat offenses should carry stiffer penalties. I remember reading about a man in Utah that had 4-5 DUI convictions and was still a free man. Don't know if he was licensed to drive or not but I don't think he should have been outside jail/prison walls.

I work a fairly liberal older man. Peace, love and the 60s never left his soul. A hippy from Puerto Rico descended (by 1 generation) from gypsies in Persia (true story lol).

But on this issue he is draconian right. He truly feels that at a certain point society is better off with you dead and gone. When you are a serial repeater and go in and out of jail constantly he fairs a cheap and quick death carried out immediately.

Funny the quirks in people that make us not fit in the "left" and "right" boxes that people want us to fit into.