What's new

Gut the team

Everybody? No.

Whatever. The main point is that the team (specifically the youngsters) were digging deep and winning a series of high-stakes games. Anybody who doesn't think that's important is bonkers.

It IS important and no one questions that...... however i believe that more playing time for the youngsters (at the cost of missing the playoffs) PLUS a couple draft picks is MORE important.

And i still think this team would be better right now if we had just decided not to care about the playoffs last year and played The Future Four big time minutes while also picking up a couple draft picks..... with the added benefit of not making the playoffs possibly forcing KOC to pull the trigger on a big al trade quicker.
 
It IS important and no one questions that...... however i believe that more playing time for the youngsters (at the cost of missing the playoffs) PLUS a couple draft picks is MORE important.

And i still think this team would be better right now if we had just decided not to care about the playoffs last year and played The Future Four big time minutes while also picking up a couple draft picks..... with the added benefit of not making the playoffs possibly forcing KOC to pull the trigger on a big al trade quicker.

100% agree. Both have value, can't even fathom the argument that getting swept in the playoffs is the greater of the two.
 
the argument doesn't need to be as simple as making the playoffs versus not making the playoffs.

a. it's safe to say that without a realistic shot at the playoffs everybody (including the youngsters) wouldn't have been gunning as hard. Human nature.
b. their play happened to be key in us winning enough games to make the playoffs.
c. you can't have your cake and eat it too. We want them to play hard and learn how to win games. They did.

Again, it's everything this organization (hasn't) done since then that has driven me crazy. "Hand-sitting" was a bit of a stretch, but Marvin, Mo, and Foye aren't enough... particularly if they are taking time away from the further development of the stretch run I'm praising.
 
Corbin living in his tiny, uthopic world that make him believe with veterans at this caliber he have, could make this team a contender. Like everyone else, he knows too that is not going to happen, but he doesn't want to acknowledge the facts, cause when he do, every in-game decision he made, rotation etc. and every off season addition KOC made would look more pathetic.

He is still desperately trying to show this team can make a deep playoff run and while he doing it he is giving this message to the youngsters with capital letters; "THIS IS NOT YOUR TEAM!"

So the bottom line is Corbin have to go immediately before they're actually trying to trade this guy;

25gxpw0.jpg
 
Weird..

Everbody hates Corbin
Everybody hates Jefferson
Everybody pretty much hates the direction of the team.

But somehow everybody here thinks KOC is/was the best GM to ever walk the planet.

Makes sense
 
Weird..

Everbody hates Corbin
Everybody hates Jefferson
Everybody pretty much hates the direction of the team.

But somehow everybody here thinks KOC is/was the best GM to ever walk the planet.

Makes sense

I dont think KOC was the one who decided to hire corbin.
KOC got us favors, kanter, burks, and hayward.... all guys most of us like. He cant force corbin to play them.
 
If Freak/Wes had their way at the beginning of last year, at least 2 of those young guys would be "busts" by now and the new coach would be fending off the exact same mob.
 
I dont think KOC was the one who decided to hire corbin.
KOC got us favors, kanter, burks, and hayward.... all guys most of us like. He cant force corbin to play them.

But he gave the green light to Corbin for not to play them (How; "We're at the same page with you Corbin, forget about the development of youngsters, make a deeper playoff run with this new additions.") with the off season moves he made.
 
If Freak/Wes had their way at the beginning of last year, at least 2 of those young guys would be "busts" by now and the new coach would be fending off the exact same mob.

Who would be busts?
I think if burks and kanter were getting 20 minutes per game from day one they would actually better than they are now and considered less likely to be busts.
Also if hayward and favors were getting 30 minutes per game from day one they would be better also and less likely to be busts also.
 
the argument doesn't need to be as simple as making the playoffs versus not making the playoffs.

a. it's safe to say that without a realistic shot at the playoffs everybody (including the youngsters) wouldn't have been gunning as hard. Human nature.
b. their play happened to be key in us winning enough games to make the playoffs.
c. you can't have your cake and eat it too. We want them to play hard and learn how to win games. They did.

Again, it's everything this organization (hasn't) done since then that has driven me crazy. "Hand-sitting" was a bit of a stretch, but Marvin, Mo, and Foye aren't enough... particularly if they are taking time away from the further development of the stretch run I'm praising.

1. KOC should have made trades that made it harder to win & then pushed a young core hard.
2. Benching $8mm contracts is a great way to get next to nothing from them. Marvin & Sap could be an appealing trade duo to a 4-6 seed.

If these guys are getting this much burn after the trade deadline then I'll start getting pissy. December 15 can't come fast enough (the day many contracts become freed up for trade).
 
Gut the team. Keep Favors, Kanter, Hayward, Burks...
This board is moving fast through the Unfounded Expectations Cycle.

Stage 1 - Everything is great. All of our young players will develop into All-Stars. Our role players are dependable, our recent acquisitions will be a great fit and outperform their career averages by a mile. And our coach is great too!

Stage 2 - For some reason many of our young players have not improved that much and the new additions are back to their career averages. Must be the coach not playing them right. Fire this abomination of a coach! Fire! Fire!

Stage 3 - The realization that this team will not become a dynasty full of All-Stars sets in. Gut the team, tank the season!
 
This board is moving fast through the Unfounded Expectations Cycle.

Stage 1 - Everything is great. All of our young players will develop into All-Stars. Our role players are dependable, our recent acquisitions will be a great fit and outperform their career averages by a mile. And our coach is great too!

Stage 2 - For some reason many of our young players have not improved that much and the new additions are back to their career averages. Must be the coach not playing them right. Fire this abomination of a coach! Fire! Fire!

Stage 3 - The realization that this team will not become a dynasty full of All-Stars sets in. Gut the team, tank the season!

Stage 2 interests me. Are you implying that we (general term) are wrong? If so please explain for us why we are wrong to be disatisfied with the quality of coaching that we are seeing from Corbin.
 
Double dribble, I think most of us either want a team with remote chances of bringing a championship or one that is actually entertaining to watch even when they're losing (2003-04). This team is nothing more than go nowhere with little apparent strategy outside player development.
 
This board is moving fast through the Unfounded Expectations Cycle.

Stage 1 - Everything is great. All of our young players will develop into All-Stars. Our role players are dependable, our recent acquisitions will be a great fit and outperform their career averages by a mile. And our coach is great too!

Stage 2 - For some reason many of our young players have not improved that much and the new additions are back to their career averages. Must be the coach not playing them right. Fire this abomination of a coach! Fire! Fire!

Stage 3 - The realization that this team will not become a dynasty full of All-Stars sets in. Gut the team, tank the season!

Interesting. I've never liked Corbin and from day one pretty much hated the hire. I also never liked bringing in Marvin or Foye. Mo I understood because of a glaring need at pg but I also didn't understand the love that most threw upon him as he joined our squad.

To be brief, we have a young squad who is very talented and at the age where they're highly impressionable. We only get one chance during their youth to teach them right, get the best out of them, and build something here. To waste it with Corbin at the helm is beyond ****ing retarded.
 
Who would be busts?
I think if burks and kanter were getting 20 minutes per game from day one they would actually better than they are now and considered less likely to be busts.
Also if hayward and favors were getting 30 minutes per game from day one they would be better also and less likely to be busts also.

Kanter and Favors are/were both ultra-raw projects. It takes time to develop these guys. Playing on a Baby Jazz team would result in a poor man's OKC. None of these guys are as good as Durant/Westbrook/Harden. That team would be like the Ty Chandler Baby Bulls (if we were lucky). You know how that turned out.

Teams full of prospects don't win and end up farm teams for those that do. OKC is a major outlier. Teams like GS, Washington and Toronto are more the norm. Have fun with that dream.

Every coach of every team in every sport does things and makes decisions that make fans mad. Right now there are Steeler fans calling for Tomlin's head FFS. The Burks situation does suck and he should play, or get traded for something that contributes. But Favors and Hayward are getting theirs, and Kanter is right where he should be as a developing big.

I gave Corbs 1 1/2 seasons of passes because of the circumstances and I won't just give him the benefit of the doubt all the time anymore. Favors should have closed that last game, and every game from here on out. But just because you fire the coach doesn't mean the new one will be better, especially if you also get rid of all the players that know WTF they are doing. Draft a Jordan or LeBron and it's a good idea. Otherwise not so much.
 
Interesting. I've never liked Corbin and from day one pretty much hated the hire. I also never liked bringing in Marvin or Foye. Mo I understood because of a glaring need at pg but I also didn't understand the love that most threw upon him as he joined our squad.

To be brief, we have a young squad who is very talented and at the age where they're highly impressionable. We only get that chance once. To waste it with Corbin at the helm is beyond ****ing retarded.

You're also drunk most of the time....
 
Kanter and Favors are/were both ultra-raw projects. It takes time to develop these guys. Playing on a Baby Jazz team would result in a poor man's OKC. None of these guys are as good as Durant/Westbrook/Harden. That team would be like the Ty Chandler Baby Bulls (if we were lucky). You know how that turned out.

Teams full of prospects don't win and end up farm teams for those that do. OKC is a major outlier. Teams like GS, Washington and Toronto are more the norm. Have fun with that dream.

Every coach of every team in every sport does things and makes decisions that make fans mad. Right now there are Steeler fans calling for Tomlin's head FFS. The Burks situation does suck and he should play, or get traded for something that contributes. But Favors and Hayward are getting theirs, and Kanter is right where he should be as a developing big.

I gave Corbs 1 1/2 seasons of passes because of the circumstances and I won't just give him the benefit of the doubt all the time anymore. Favors should have closed that last game, and every game from here on out. But just because you fire the coach doesn't mean the new one will be better, especially if you also get rid of all the players that know WTF they are doing. Draft a Jordan or LeBron and it's a good idea. Otherwise not so much.

This is a good post but i would argue that the teams you mentioned (washington, GS, toronto) while having some lottery picks, do not have 4 lottery picks from just 2 draft classes.
Thoses teams you mentioned are continually in the lotter and therefore get 1 good pick per year, the jazz on the other hand got 4 good picks in only 2 years.
Not many teams have two #3 picks plus a 9 and 12 pick in just 2 years all without having a bad record.
So GS, washington and toronto have not been in the jazz situation.

I think that last year and this year the jazz COULD have played burks and kanter 20 minutes per game and favors and hayward 30 minutes per game and still had a good record and possibly made the playoffs even (much different than the teams you mentioned).
Also you must look at who was playing ahead of burks and to some extent taking minutes from hayward: Howard, bell, cj miles..... would we really have been much worse if more of those players minutes had went to hayward and burks? Doubtful.
So to me the jazz (mainly corbin) screwed up big time by giving minutes to CJ, bell and howard (all gone btw) instead of burks and hayward taking more of thier minutes.

Whats worse is that now they are doing it again: Giving minutes to foye instead of burks when foye will probably be gone next year just like cj, bell, and howard is just adding to the mistakes of last year.
 
I dont think KOC was the one who decided to hire corbin.
KOC got us favors, kanter, burks, and hayward.... all guys most of us like. He cant force corbin to play them.

WTF? Lol.

Who hired Corbin then?

C'mon man, stop being delusional. So according to you, KOC is only responsible for the good things.?

And yes he can force Corbin to play them
 
Top