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Harris' value (as I see it)

Chargers Jazz Angels

Chargers Jazz Angels

Well-Known Member
I am not a Harris fan so I wouldn't care to much if the jazz shipped him out for some value. This is in no way in any order ( also some trade would have to make salaries work )

- Portland Matthews and or Fernandez

- Sacramento Garcia, casspi Thompson

- Toronto Bargnani

- Indiana collison or granger

- Atlanta henrich or Marvin Williams

- charlotte Jackson

- clippers kaman

- lakers Any combination of their young talent brown, caracter, ebanks

- Phoenix Childress, Dudley gortat

Not a lot on there that get me really excited. But there are some teams that need point guards. If the jazz are going with a youth movement and or get Irving in this draft or feel they can get a goodone next year I say let him go.
 
I agree we need to trade Harris. My dream scenario would be some sort of Harris and Millsap package for Westbrook.
 
Harris can be an effective point in the right system. Don't trade Harris. Use him right. This is Ty's biggest offseason situation.
 
Only way I'd trade Harris is if we get Irving or someone offers an excellent trade and it includes a young PG
 
Harris' trade value might be lower than you think. I think he is a good scoring guard too go along with Irving, but nobody is going to trade the Irving pick for Harris+The Nets pick, unless the Nets pick also moves up.
 
To be honest I wouldnt have an issue with taking a point in this draft either fredette or knight who are both combo guards let them learn and resign watson. Then take a franchise point next year.
 
Sloan Pwns said:
Sooo tweak the system in order to fit one player?
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The system needs to be tweaked anyway. But we have talented players. And Harris can be an effective point. Unfortunately, he's not well suited to the P&R because he's not that great of a shooter. And Al is a true low post player, not so much a P&R guy. What Devin can absolutely do is drive. But he has no offense to give him options on the drive. Both those guys have talents that could work in the right system. They just won't work in the Jerry system which needs to be scrapped.
 
I really like Watson. His shot is so ugly but he's been hitting his 3s of late.

I like Harris and he can put up stats, but yeah - the aftertaste can be a little sour. I don't have a lot of confidence in him as the future of the franchise. Even though he's quick and can do things Watson can't I think they're overall contribution to the team is about equal. They're both really great backups. Which is why I'm inclined to resign Watson @ his cheap pricetag and try and trade Harris for something of value. And with his stats and his being a former all-star as a starter people still consider him a starter. I mean he is. But I think it's borderline. He's either below average starter or fantastic off the bench backup.

Trouble with trading Harris is, after his losing season with Detroit + his losing season with the Jazz, what actually is his trade value among the league. Who are these teams that need Point Guards? I looked at the list and I thought they all had some that were right around as good as Harris. I'd love to trade him to Portland for our old friend Matthews but Portland has Andre Miller. Is Miller retiring? Anyone wanna Gillooly him?
 
Agree with BS. If Corbin is only going to install minor tweaks in the Sloan system, KOC needs to trade Jefferson and Harris (and Millsap). None of those guys can run the P&R offense effectively. And he may as well get rid of Hayward. Imagine a SG in the Utah offense who has the ability to drive. SG's are an after thought in the classic Utah offense. You throw the ball out to them as a last resort.
 
I don't see Harris as "the future" at PG for the Jazz, but I'm not throwing him under the bus either. He's an intelligent veteran basketball player. Switching teams in mid-season is toughenough, even more so when going to a more team-oriented system where a new guy is expected to blend in with existing players. And, many of the existing players are new, and with 3 rookies... So gotta give him a summer and TC to work with his teammates, and see how things look next season. Oh, and we'll have 2 additional rookies to blend in after the draft too... I'd bet if he'd been available, the Lakers would've gobbled Harris up in a heartbeat...
 
And I have to agree with others who point out Ty Corbin is now the coach instead of Jerry Sloan. I'm sure he's tweaking the ol' Sloan system and will continue to do so. This season at this point he's evaluating guys on his own terms, as he should be. I loved Jerry Sloan, but there's a time for change for every man.
Good article in the Trib with a great quote of the late Vince Lombardi regarding faith and discipline. Just like the players, the fans have to adjust... :
https://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/jazz/51597001-87/jazz-hayward-monson-corbin.html.csp
 
billyshelby said:
The system needs to be tweaked anyway. But we have talented players. And Harris can be an effective point. Unfortunately, he's not well suited to the P&R because he's not that great of a shooter. And Al is a true low post player, not so much a P&R guy. What Devin can absolutely do is drive. But he has no offense to give him options on the drive. Both those guys have talents that could work in the right system. They just won't work in the Jerry system which needs to be scrapped.
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He sure looked good when he would drive and kick to Dirk for open jumpers huh?


I say give Harris a chance at least. This year has been such a cluster**** of mess and injury and new players getting used to each other with no real time to practice or change systems to fit players. Couple that with a rookie coach and you have the Utah Jazz. Give it time gents.
 
Andre miller has a team option with Portland but he doesn't get along with Roy. The blazers have been involved in most of the trade rumors for Harris for a couple of years. Harris would be a great match next to Roy. Batum is supposedly untouchable so the player I think the jazz want the most is Matthews. Salaries don't match so Fernandez would have to be added.

If the jazz did this trade Hayward would have to slide to the 3. I think that would be just fine since the 2 and the 3 are interchangeable.

As far as that list already having pgs Sacramento has uhdrih (sp) and have been looking for a point for a while Evans is a 2 guard. Toronto has Calderon and he sucks. Indiana does have collison and that is a stretch but hey I like granger. Atlanta has nothing henrich is only ok. Charlotte has Augustine but they would probably include him in a trade. The clippers have wlliams but he is not a starter. Bledsoe is coming along but is still a year or 2 away. Lakers have nothing and would give up some to get him. Phoenix is looking to move Nash.
 
Harris isn't that good. I've heard that Portland and Dallas had a lot of interest in him at the deadline so make something happen with one of them.

And to billyshelby specifically; your dislike of the flex offense is long documented. It hasn't mattered whether it's getting the most points per 100 possessions or the highest FG% in the league, you just don't like it. So your proposal is to rebuild the offense around a decent but not very good or versatile PG and a big that took 8 years to learn to catch a pass while moving at the same time? If Harris isn't or can't be a great pnr PG and he's not a great spot-up option, then the Jazz are doing what exactly? Drive-and-dish/kick is the only thing Harris excels at and the team is bereft of shooters and guys that know how to get in/find space, catch a pass, then finish (with one or two exceptions).

Again, Harris is not that good and Jefferson still doesn't know how to produce and win at the same time. I'd say get rid of both, but if I had to keep one, Jefferson is definitely the more rare and difficult player to find. I've never seen a future with Harris and I probably never will. Trade him and the rights to Tomic to Portland for Matthews and whatever they might want to dump (if they even have anything).
 
NUMBERICA said:
Harris isn't that good. I've heard that Portland and Dallas had a lot of interest in him at the deadline so make something happen with one of them.

And to billyshelby specifically; your dislike of the flex offense is long documented. It hasn't mattered whether it's getting the most points per 100 possessions or the highest FG% in the league, you just don't like it. So your proposal is to rebuild the offense around a decent but not very good or versatile PG and a big that took 8 years to learn to catch a pass while moving at the same time? If Harris isn't or can't be a great pnr PG and he's not a great spot-up option, then the Jazz are doing what exactly? Drive-and-dish/kick is the only thing Harris excels at and the team is bereft of shooters and guys that know how to get in/find space, catch a pass, then finish (with one or two exceptions).

Again, Harris is not that good and Jefferson still doesn't know how to produce and win at the same time. I'd say get rid of both, but if I had to keep one, Jefferson is definitely the more rare and difficult player to find. I've never seen a future with Harris and I probably never will. Trade him and the rights to Tomic to Portland for Matthews and whatever they might want to dump (if they even have anything).
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My issue really isn't the flex. It can work and the Jazz have proven it can. My primary issue is more abstract--we don't need to pick ONE offensive system right now and keep whittling guys down until we have the magic assembly. We can have the dream offense as a distant goal, but for now we have to scheme with the guys we have (trades and acquisitions can change this picture, of course.)

So what I'd do is keep aspects of the offense. Off the ball screens are good. The curl can still work as a fulcrum, but stop emphasizing the shot off it. A guy getting the ball with space can drive, draw help defense to free up cutters to the basket or find shooters on the arc. Harris needs to look for his drives as a given since that's his best skill. But there are 2 things that I would absolutely put into a scheme with the guys we have:

1) Start running P&R with wings: It would look like this. Harris drops off to the wing, runs through, the wing drops the ball into the post. If the O doesn't get the easy bucket off backside screens and/or Al/Sap finding an easy bucket (10-14 seconds), get the ball back outside to a wing. Then bring out the high post for a P&R. At this point, it's some combo of Al/Sap/Favors and CJ/Hayward. But hopefully we get better wings and Raja spends next year seeking enlightenment in Tibet.

2) Spend ALL summer working with Al having the ball in the post and knowing where his (yet to be instituted) cutters are coming from. Drill after drill after drill passing out of the post. Make him watch every game Tim Duncan has ever played. He'll never be Duncan, but Duncan does this better than anyone. The Spurs drop it to him and he's like a massive QB. He's looking for his shot just as much as he's looking for his cutters. As it is right now, nobody cuts to the basket when Al faces. We just watch and pray he makes it. Al may not be a great passer, but we can give a so-so passer easy passes.
 
As to the OP, I would only trade Harris in a deal that brought a better PG back. Like, I'm apparently in the minority that would deal him in some package for Nash (better player plus better trade value.) There might be other deals out there. The only other scenario where I'd deal Harris is if we got Irving, but even then I'd rather have Harris starting and Irving backing him up.
 
sojodave said:
Your right, we don't need Harris, we have Kyle Weaver. :)
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Not any more



not sure about Hinrich's contract status (it was a bit of an albatross but this might be its last year) - he's decent, quite defensive-minded, a great teammate and leader, and great with the rooks - he could be a very positive addition.


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