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Harris' value (as I see it)

I don't see Harris as "the future" at PG for the Jazz, but I'm not throwing him under the bus either. He's an intelligent veteran basketball player. Switching teams in mid-season is toughenough, even more so when going to a more team-oriented system where a new guy is expected to blend in with existing players. And, many of the existing players are new, and with 3 rookies... So gotta give him a summer and TC to work with his teammates, and see how things look next season. Oh, and we'll have 2 additional rookies to blend in after the draft too... I'd bet if he'd been available, the Lakers would've gobbled Harris up in a heartbeat...
 
And I have to agree with others who point out Ty Corbin is now the coach instead of Jerry Sloan. I'm sure he's tweaking the ol' Sloan system and will continue to do so. This season at this point he's evaluating guys on his own terms, as he should be. I loved Jerry Sloan, but there's a time for change for every man.
Good article in the Trib with a great quote of the late Vince Lombardi regarding faith and discipline. Just like the players, the fans have to adjust... :
https://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/jazz/51597001-87/jazz-hayward-monson-corbin.html.csp
 
billyshelby said:
The system needs to be tweaked anyway. But we have talented players. And Harris can be an effective point. Unfortunately, he's not well suited to the P&R because he's not that great of a shooter. And Al is a true low post player, not so much a P&R guy. What Devin can absolutely do is drive. But he has no offense to give him options on the drive. Both those guys have talents that could work in the right system. They just won't work in the Jerry system which needs to be scrapped.
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He sure looked good when he would drive and kick to Dirk for open jumpers huh?


I say give Harris a chance at least. This year has been such a cluster**** of mess and injury and new players getting used to each other with no real time to practice or change systems to fit players. Couple that with a rookie coach and you have the Utah Jazz. Give it time gents.
 
Andre miller has a team option with Portland but he doesn't get along with Roy. The blazers have been involved in most of the trade rumors for Harris for a couple of years. Harris would be a great match next to Roy. Batum is supposedly untouchable so the player I think the jazz want the most is Matthews. Salaries don't match so Fernandez would have to be added.

If the jazz did this trade Hayward would have to slide to the 3. I think that would be just fine since the 2 and the 3 are interchangeable.

As far as that list already having pgs Sacramento has uhdrih (sp) and have been looking for a point for a while Evans is a 2 guard. Toronto has Calderon and he sucks. Indiana does have collison and that is a stretch but hey I like granger. Atlanta has nothing henrich is only ok. Charlotte has Augustine but they would probably include him in a trade. The clippers have wlliams but he is not a starter. Bledsoe is coming along but is still a year or 2 away. Lakers have nothing and would give up some to get him. Phoenix is looking to move Nash.
 
Harris isn't that good. I've heard that Portland and Dallas had a lot of interest in him at the deadline so make something happen with one of them.

And to billyshelby specifically; your dislike of the flex offense is long documented. It hasn't mattered whether it's getting the most points per 100 possessions or the highest FG% in the league, you just don't like it. So your proposal is to rebuild the offense around a decent but not very good or versatile PG and a big that took 8 years to learn to catch a pass while moving at the same time? If Harris isn't or can't be a great pnr PG and he's not a great spot-up option, then the Jazz are doing what exactly? Drive-and-dish/kick is the only thing Harris excels at and the team is bereft of shooters and guys that know how to get in/find space, catch a pass, then finish (with one or two exceptions).

Again, Harris is not that good and Jefferson still doesn't know how to produce and win at the same time. I'd say get rid of both, but if I had to keep one, Jefferson is definitely the more rare and difficult player to find. I've never seen a future with Harris and I probably never will. Trade him and the rights to Tomic to Portland for Matthews and whatever they might want to dump (if they even have anything).
 
NUMBERICA said:
Harris isn't that good. I've heard that Portland and Dallas had a lot of interest in him at the deadline so make something happen with one of them.

And to billyshelby specifically; your dislike of the flex offense is long documented. It hasn't mattered whether it's getting the most points per 100 possessions or the highest FG% in the league, you just don't like it. So your proposal is to rebuild the offense around a decent but not very good or versatile PG and a big that took 8 years to learn to catch a pass while moving at the same time? If Harris isn't or can't be a great pnr PG and he's not a great spot-up option, then the Jazz are doing what exactly? Drive-and-dish/kick is the only thing Harris excels at and the team is bereft of shooters and guys that know how to get in/find space, catch a pass, then finish (with one or two exceptions).

Again, Harris is not that good and Jefferson still doesn't know how to produce and win at the same time. I'd say get rid of both, but if I had to keep one, Jefferson is definitely the more rare and difficult player to find. I've never seen a future with Harris and I probably never will. Trade him and the rights to Tomic to Portland for Matthews and whatever they might want to dump (if they even have anything).
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My issue really isn't the flex. It can work and the Jazz have proven it can. My primary issue is more abstract--we don't need to pick ONE offensive system right now and keep whittling guys down until we have the magic assembly. We can have the dream offense as a distant goal, but for now we have to scheme with the guys we have (trades and acquisitions can change this picture, of course.)

So what I'd do is keep aspects of the offense. Off the ball screens are good. The curl can still work as a fulcrum, but stop emphasizing the shot off it. A guy getting the ball with space can drive, draw help defense to free up cutters to the basket or find shooters on the arc. Harris needs to look for his drives as a given since that's his best skill. But there are 2 things that I would absolutely put into a scheme with the guys we have:

1) Start running P&R with wings: It would look like this. Harris drops off to the wing, runs through, the wing drops the ball into the post. If the O doesn't get the easy bucket off backside screens and/or Al/Sap finding an easy bucket (10-14 seconds), get the ball back outside to a wing. Then bring out the high post for a P&R. At this point, it's some combo of Al/Sap/Favors and CJ/Hayward. But hopefully we get better wings and Raja spends next year seeking enlightenment in Tibet.

2) Spend ALL summer working with Al having the ball in the post and knowing where his (yet to be instituted) cutters are coming from. Drill after drill after drill passing out of the post. Make him watch every game Tim Duncan has ever played. He'll never be Duncan, but Duncan does this better than anyone. The Spurs drop it to him and he's like a massive QB. He's looking for his shot just as much as he's looking for his cutters. As it is right now, nobody cuts to the basket when Al faces. We just watch and pray he makes it. Al may not be a great passer, but we can give a so-so passer easy passes.
 
As to the OP, I would only trade Harris in a deal that brought a better PG back. Like, I'm apparently in the minority that would deal him in some package for Nash (better player plus better trade value.) There might be other deals out there. The only other scenario where I'd deal Harris is if we got Irving, but even then I'd rather have Harris starting and Irving backing him up.
 
sojodave said:
Your right, we don't need Harris, we have Kyle Weaver. :)
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Not any more



not sure about Hinrich's contract status (it was a bit of an albatross but this might be its last year) - he's decent, quite defensive-minded, a great teammate and leader, and great with the rooks - he could be a very positive addition.


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Yeah, I've always like Hinrich.

As far as trading Harris to Portland - I would love to get both Matthews and Fernandez. But what's the latest with Fernandez? Last summer he was still bitching about wanting to go back to Europe to play. Is he willing to play in the NBA past his current contract? Is he just a prima donna and doesn't want to come off the bench?
 
Here is the roster as I think it should be next year.

PG Harris/Rookie PG (Irving if possible) Knight or Jimmer with 12 if not.
SG Hayward/CJ/Weaver
SF Evans/Rookie SF (Barnes preferably but unlikely) or somebody else
PF Favors/Millsap
C Jefferson/Fess/Tomic

I don't mind Harris as a place holder.

Price, Bell, Memo and Ak can all be gone. We are rebuilding and getting youth in their place is not a bad thing. I realize this roster will probably struggle next year but that is part of rebuilding.

I would love to re-sign Watson, but don't believe he will have any interest in returning.

Also could move CJ to backup SF or starting SF and draft Kanter if that is what they choose to do. Overall they should accept that they are rebuilding and get these players to learn to be a team. I like the overall talent on this team but they need depth. The draft picks over the next few years should help with depth. I'm open to moving Millsap as I don't like him at Sf full time and don't see him being happy about being backup PF. If they trade him then they need another big man. Unless that is the position they see Evans in.
 
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Harris is fine. We are spoiled and used to having a top 2 PG for years (which won what for us again?). Harris will be fine.
 
I agree the Jazz don't need a top 2 PG since that didn't win the Jazz anything. They just need a PG that's fine.
Harris IS fine. He's fine. But I think the offense runs equal to or better under Watson.

So IF Harris has any trade value in the league - if Portland would give us Matthews/Fernandez - then I think that move would behoove the Jazz.
 
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