How are you feeling about John Collins?
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Tremendous Upside
Well-Known Member
I'll just interrupt the lovefest to remind you that in the NBA, your position is the one you can defend. The incredible evolution of team defenses has muddled the issue somewhat (and we all know about the few notable exceptions like Draymond), but IMO the rule still applies pretty well to starters in particular. Collins cannot defend the 5 spot, so ideally he's more like a bench center used for spot duty or a starting 4 who wants to hang our near the basket (which is not ideal in the modern NBA where the "PF" should be a floor spreader above all else).
I mean the whole league considers Collins a tweener and his time in Utah hasn't changed that. If we want to play him in the middle, it immediately creates a defensive problem. Kessler is the only guy on the regular rotation who can really improve the rim protection / low post D of the Collins lineups, and those two are very incompatible on the other side of the ball because Walker parking himself and his defender near the basket prevents John from doing the things he does best (diving/flying in from the weak side for oops and offensive rebounds).
In short, Collins is a bit of a luxury to begin with, and his contract exacerbates the situation. This is basically why Atlanta traded him, and the exact same factors are in play here. John has played well lately, but his role has largely been that of a pogo stick garbage man who crashes the offensive boards hard and gets an alley now and then when the D forgets him. And paying a garbage man over $25 million is just stupid. But hey, it's not my money, and I wouldn't trade Collins now as the offense is really humming.
As an aside – I hope people realize how much it hurts us that Walker is so ridiculously one-dimensional and lacks all ball skills. He's part of the Collins problem as he prevents us from using many player combinations that would otherwise work. Moving Kessler to the bench has been one of Hardy's best decisions ever.
I mean the whole league considers Collins a tweener and his time in Utah hasn't changed that. If we want to play him in the middle, it immediately creates a defensive problem. Kessler is the only guy on the regular rotation who can really improve the rim protection / low post D of the Collins lineups, and those two are very incompatible on the other side of the ball because Walker parking himself and his defender near the basket prevents John from doing the things he does best (diving/flying in from the weak side for oops and offensive rebounds).
In short, Collins is a bit of a luxury to begin with, and his contract exacerbates the situation. This is basically why Atlanta traded him, and the exact same factors are in play here. John has played well lately, but his role has largely been that of a pogo stick garbage man who crashes the offensive boards hard and gets an alley now and then when the D forgets him. And paying a garbage man over $25 million is just stupid. But hey, it's not my money, and I wouldn't trade Collins now as the offense is really humming.
As an aside – I hope people realize how much it hurts us that Walker is so ridiculously one-dimensional and lacks all ball skills. He's part of the Collins problem as he prevents us from using many player combinations that would otherwise work. Moving Kessler to the bench has been one of Hardy's best decisions ever.
Given that we supposedly tried to trade for Porzingiz and Holiday but ended up with the Collins and retaining Dunn, is that a potential indication to how Danny plans to build this team?
Tremendous Upside
Well-Known Member
Why would you of all people interrupt the lovefest? After 20 or so games you and few of the other posters were shamelessly bashing him on every possible opportunity, and now that he does deserve some flowers for improving you want to stop that. This is merely balancing that earlier act of pessimism that was equally tilted and dramatized but to the other way. I told you back then that he comes from one of the dumbest offensive systems known to man (not the Snyder, but the McMillan one) and thus the learning curve in Hardy offense is steep for him.
Answer this simple question.... Are you rooting for the guy or for your take?
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Possibly. Walker on the bench is where he belongs so it's a good move by Danny
I like Collins and was big on trading for him a few seasons back. My only worry is he's going to get targeted on the defensive end during the playoffs. Aside from that, Collins is putting up great offensive numbers and rarely has a **** stat line on the offensive end. He's shot 59.7% in the month of January.
TheStormofWar
Well-Known Member
This is about where I'm at, but we need to make the Playoffs first before worrying about him being targeted. I'm good with him as a player and dude, but that contract's a bit steep. But it'll become an asset before we know it, so there isn't a point to worry about him in that regard. He's not Ostertaging this team.
David Hume
Well-Known Member
John Martin Collins III has grown much during his brief tenure with thy Jazz. He can throw the ball into the goal from behind the painted line that indicates an extra point shall be awarded. He can play 5-out, unlike our colleague Walker Ross Kessler, who is challenged in the shooting and dribbling aspects. Forward, John, forward, Jazz!
Udidthizz
Well-Known Member
‘Ball’? Surely you mean ‘cowhide globe’, good Sir!
Peter_Mentor
Active Member
This post is more about our lineup structure than John Martin Collins III himself.
In general, I really like our 5-out lineup. It really gives us the stepping stones on how to be a lethal force on the offensive end. The problem is, we don't have enough quality players to close out games. In the closing minutes, Will wants to maximize shot creation at the expense of defense and, unfortunately, he has really succeeded in that. From the beginning of January, our defensive rating in the 4th quarters has been abysmal 135.6 when Clarkson, Lauri, Sexton and Collins have shared the floor. I also can't imagine that Will would be happy with how we move the ball with that lineup.
So how to fix this problem? We don't have perfect pieces and it's really tough to close out games without players who can create shots for themselves. I believe that replacing Collins with Kessler is a wild card that Will only uses against suitable opponents. The alternative is to improve defense and ball movement but sacrifice shot creation. Until Keyonte grows into this role (maybe never), our starting lineup Dunn-Sexton-Tech-Lauri-Collins is an obvious choice. Another option is to throw Sexton into the deep end as the only one who can handle the rock and replace Dunn with Ochai. Unfortunately, Ochai's development has been at a standstill, and he has absolutely no confidence left.
I.e. I'm stating the obvious: we lack players who can defend, handle the ball, shoot and are not ball stoppers. If Clarkson is traded, there will be growing pains, but in the long run the change will be for the better.
In general, I really like our 5-out lineup. It really gives us the stepping stones on how to be a lethal force on the offensive end. The problem is, we don't have enough quality players to close out games. In the closing minutes, Will wants to maximize shot creation at the expense of defense and, unfortunately, he has really succeeded in that. From the beginning of January, our defensive rating in the 4th quarters has been abysmal 135.6 when Clarkson, Lauri, Sexton and Collins have shared the floor. I also can't imagine that Will would be happy with how we move the ball with that lineup.
So how to fix this problem? We don't have perfect pieces and it's really tough to close out games without players who can create shots for themselves. I believe that replacing Collins with Kessler is a wild card that Will only uses against suitable opponents. The alternative is to improve defense and ball movement but sacrifice shot creation. Until Keyonte grows into this role (maybe never), our starting lineup Dunn-Sexton-Tech-Lauri-Collins is an obvious choice. Another option is to throw Sexton into the deep end as the only one who can handle the rock and replace Dunn with Ochai. Unfortunately, Ochai's development has been at a standstill, and he has absolutely no confidence left.
I.e. I'm stating the obvious: we lack players who can defend, handle the ball, shoot and are not ball stoppers. If Clarkson is traded, there will be growing pains, but in the long run the change will be for the better.