How long is too long to build a championship team??

[Lakers_Slapper]

I ask this question because the Jazz last Championship contending team was 12 years ago.... How much time do you need??? When does a team look over the last decade + and say, "I think we're doing something wrong". I love the Jazz and have been a fan since 1988, and it just seems like there is no one in our management staff that knows what the hell they are doing. There are managers at McDonalds that could do a better job at building a championship team.
We have the most loyal fans of any team in the NBA, and we deserve a lot better. When should our roudy fan base at ESA go from cheering to chanting? Is anyone else sick of nothing being done?

 

[trigg3r]

I ask this question because the Jazz last Championship contending team was 12 years ago.... How much time do you need??? When does a team look over the last decade + and say, "I think we're doing something wrong". I love the Jazz and have been a fan since 1988, and it just seems like there is no one in our management staff that knows what the hell they are doing. There are managers at McDonalds that could do a better job at building a championship team.
We have the most loyal fans of any team in the NBA, and we deserve a lot better. When should our roudy fan base at ESA go from cheering to chanting? Is anyone else sick of nothing being done?

I was always under the assumption that when you are a fan of a team, that's it. You can't just turn it off or start pulling for another team just because you don't with how your team is operating. Hell, if I could do that, I probably wouldn't still be a Cub fan. I guess my only suggestion would be to stop watching or going to games if the current rebuild bothers you so much.

 

[Ron Boone]

I ask this question because the Jazz last Championship contending team was 12 years ago.... How much time do you need??? When does a team look over the last decade + and say, "I think we're doing something wrong". I love the Jazz and have been a fan since 1988, and it just seems like there is no one in our management staff that knows what the hell they are doing. There are managers at McDonalds that could do a better job at building a championship team.
We have the most loyal fans of any team in the NBA, and we deserve a lot better. When should our roudy fan base at ESA go from cheering to chanting? Is anyone else sick of nothing being done?

What is with the whiny *** jazz fans these days. We could be the Bobcats who are in a constant rebuild. I do know there are openings on the Heat/Thunder/Spurs/Lakers/Clippers bandwagon these days. Just move around for the team that is currently winning.

 

[trigg3r]

What is with the whiny *** jazz fans these days. We could be the Bobcats who are in a constant rebuild. I do know there are openings on the Heat/Thunder/Spurs/Lakers/Clippers bandwagon these days. Just move around for the team that is currently winning.

Damn Ron.... You seem like such a nice guy on TV and the radio.....

 

[BTP]

I'd say Thursday night is best time to switch camps and go all bandwagon

 

[green]

It's because of whiny fans that we have been so mediocre for so long. It's nice to have Lindsey in here, who seems to be willing to build it right.

Remember, Pop was the Spurs GM. He fired the coach, traded Rodman, and made himself the coach, sucked a year, got TD and won multiple titles. I'm not saying Lindsey is going to make himself coach, but I am saying he is actually looking past this year in building this team. He is doing it the right way so far.

 

[Gameface]

100 years without a chip and I'm gonna start looking around for a new team.

 

[Thee Jazz Fan]

I ask this question because the Jazz last Championship contending team was 12 years ago.... How much time do you need??? When does a team look over the last decade + and say, "I think we're doing something wrong". I love the Jazz and have been a fan since 1988, and it just seems like there is no one in our management staff that knows what the hell they are doing. There are managers at McDonalds that could do a better job at building a championship team.
We have the most loyal fans of any team in the NBA, and we deserve a lot better. When should our roudy fan base at ESA go from cheering to chanting? Is anyone else sick of nothing being done?

If your trying to say that management isn't trying your an idiot!

When John and Karl left, I didn't think we would win more then 15 games with AK and Harp. as our best players. How we won as many games as we did, I'll never know. That off season we spent 110million on two players (Booz and Memo), then traded up to draft D-Will. That didn't work because we couldn't build a complete team around those three because AK's contract had a strangle hold around the jazz proverbial neck.

so we let Boozer walk and traded for Al, who by the way most jazzfans were excited about this move. That didn't work, so the jazz traded their best player for a young player in Favors and draft picks. One of those picks being Kanter, and if not for a GS obvious and blatant tank job, we'd have had a top ten pick in last years draft. Who knows maybe we'd have had the ammo to trade up past Portland to get Lillard. It was reported that the jazz tried to trade for a pick in last years draft, but teams were asking for Favors, was never going to happen.

The jazz biggest problem was outside shooting so the jazz go out and trade for Mo, and Marvin, and signed Foye. Now it looks like we are dropping Al and Millsap. We have the c4 who are all expected to get big minutes and going with a youth movement which most of us have been wanting for a long time, and have two firsts this year. Jazzfanz have been crying for the jazz to go with the youth movement. It's now going to happen and a lot of you are still acting like hurt little girls.

So don't come on here and think that building a championship team is easy to build. If this was the case the bulls wouldn't have two three consecutive chip periods the Lakers and Celtics wouldn't be considered better originations then the rest. The Thunder would have won a chip by now and LeBron would still be a Cav.

It's because of whiny fans that we have been so mediocre for so long. It's nice to have Lindsey in here, who seems to be willing to build it right.

Remember, Pop was the Spurs GM. He fired the coach, traded Rodman, and made himself the coach, sucked a year, got TD and won multiple titles. I'm not saying Lindsey is going to make himself coach, but I am saying he is actually looking past this year in building this team. He is doing it the right way so far.

It's amazing people here still to this day think the Spurs intended to suck that year. You do realized that both Elliot and Tim Duncun both had season ending inguries and were stuck with an over the hill Dominik Willkins as there best player. Then they got lucky the jazz didn't want to draft Parker and got lucky with Ginobili in the second round. I've never seen a team be so lucky as to have a championship team fall into Thier laps. So I'm sick and tired of hearing that the jazz should follow this so called model of the Spurs unless you are suggesting we try to get lucky.

 

[green]

It's amazing people here still to this day think the Spurs intended to suck that year. You do realized that both Elliot and Tim Duncun both had season ending inguries and were stuck with an over the hill Dominik Willkins as there best player. Then they got lucky the jazz didn't want to draft Parker and got lucky with Ginobili in the second round. I've never seen a team be so lucky as to have a championship team fall into Thier laps. So I'm sick and tired of hearing that the jazz should follow this so called model of the Spurs unless you are suggesting we try to get lucky.

I think you meant Robinson. Anyhow, the Spurs didn't start out the year trying to be awful. BUT, once the year progressed and Robinson COULD HAVE come back, the Spurs chose to sit him, ala GS last year, to give themselves a better pick. They knew that there was no point in bringing Robinson back early to get bounced in the first round. They took a long term view and realized that, yup, we might miss out on the playoffs this year and a couple million dollars, but if we get a top pick and can put Duncan/KVH/someone else next to Robinson, we may have a shot at titles.

Unlike the Jazz, whose sole purpose before this year was just be good enough to keep Stoked and whoever started that other stupid thread happy.

 

[Thee Jazz Fan]

I think you meant Robinson. Anyhow, the Spurs didn't start out the year trying to be awful. BUT, once the year progressed and Robinson COULD HAVE come back, the Spurs chose to sit him, ala GS last year, to give themselves a better pick. They knew that there was no point in bringing Robinson back early to get bounced in the first round. They took a long term view and realized that, yup, we might miss out on the playoffs this year and a couple million dollars, but if we get a top pick and can put Duncan/KVH/someone else next to Robinson, we may have a shot at titles.

Unlike the Jazz, whose sole purpose before this year was just be good enough to keep Stoked and whoever started that other stupid thread happy.

Yes meant Robinson.

My point was if Robinson and Elliot dont have those major injuries they never get Duncan. If the jazz hadn't been cheep the jazz would've picked Parker instead of Lopez, and Ginobili was picked somewhere in the 50's. By the time Rob was ready to play again there was no point to bring him back and risk further injury to a superstars getting up in age. They were looking at having him 100% for the next year, and they still had to get lucky in the lotto to get the #1 pick. So in the end they built their championship team because of luck, and not design. There situation was different from GS.

 

[Getting Traded]

What is with the whiny *** jazz fans these days. We could be the Bobcats who are in a constant rebuild. I do know there are openings on the Heat/Thunder/Spurs/Lakers/Clippers bandwagon these days. Just move around for the team that is currently winning.

Ron, you're not really the Ron, are you. But damn, Corbin is such a bonehead. How can you blame the fans for bitching?

 

[David Stern]

I'd definitely argue that we were a contending team in 2006-2008, but that window quickly shut with the other teams getting better around us. But still, we haven't really done a complete rebuild until now.. More of just a reload with trades and free agents.

 

[BTP]

Yes meant Robinson.

My point was if Robinson and Elliot dont have those major injuries they never get Duncan. If the jazz hadn't been cheep the jazz would've picked Parker instead of Lopez, and Ginobili was picked somewhere in the 50's. By the time Rob was ready to play again there was no point to bring him back and risk further injury to a superstars getting up in age. They were looking at having him 100% for the next year, and they still had to get lucky in the lotto to get the #1 pick. So in the end they built their championship team because of luck, and not design. There situation was different from GS.

That's a very premature judgement from my point of view. So one could say you got lucky Deron Williams turned out to be a #1 quality talent(at least some franchises seem to think that way)
And you got lucky your traded draftpick turned out to be #3 for Kanter.
Through the draft everything is luck. Even championships are sometimes luck-based. But a team can do its best to avoid busts. And I think San Antonio is very good at it. They excell at evaluating international talent and finding sleeper. If their surprise assets aren't sleeper they do a good job getting the best out of everyone.
Thing is they got their franchise player via draft, lucky or not. Maybe(probably) they would have even found another cornerstone later on. And after that they filled their roster with value picks, most of which came through their draft/scouting. For me that sets the tone. No window shopper like the heat, but a franchise building it successively.

 

[BTP]

lol double(for whatever reason)

 

[Ron Boone]

Ron, you're not really the Ron, are you. But damn, Corbin is such a bonehead. How can you blame the fans for bitching?

I could be THE Ron, I might not...

Believe me, Ty is a dumb****. I wish he wasn't coming back, but who knows; he may suddenly get it....or he won't. We as fans have a right to complain; but I also want fans to know we are damn lucky to have a team here in Utah anyway. People remember back to the glory days of john and karl; but hell the jazz were horrible in NO and when they came to Utah. Look how long it took to make it to the finals; year after year of first and second round exits. Some WCF, but all exits. I look forward to the struggle for Corbin to finally get it; or him getting canned. I look forward to the young guys kicking ***....or sucking ***. Its a gamble; and i see a lot of fans just rag on KOC, Greg Miller, and others associated with the team; and i get irritated.

 

[green]

Yes meant Robinson.

My point was if Robinson and Elliot dont have those major injuries they never get Duncan. If the jazz hadn't been cheep the jazz would've picked Parker instead of Lopez, and Ginobili was picked somewhere in the 50's. By the time Rob was ready to play again there was no point to bring him back and risk further injury to a superstars getting up in age. They were looking at having him 100% for the next year, and they still had to get lucky in the lotto to get the #1 pick. So in the end they built their championship team because of luck, and not design. There situation was different from GS.

I agree. There is a lot of luck in winning a title. SA had to win the #1 pick. OKC and Chicago had to have people in front of them fall in love with bigs. Robinson and Elliot had to get hurt.

BUT, reflect this back to Utah. In today's NBA, you aren't going to find the all time leader in assists and steals and the second all time scorer in the late lottery or later. There is too much scouting. There is too much information. You can't build a contender by being a 6th-8th seed year in and year out. Eventually you will lose some players and you will have to be terrible again. It's just the nature of today's NBA. If you want a Durrant, Wade, LeBron, Harden, you have to have a top 5/6 pick. You have to suck.

So, if you are Utah, you have options right now. IF your goal is to win a title, you know you can't sign Al or Millsap, because they aren't good enough to deserve the money they will make this summer. Also, there aren't any Boozer's or Okur's out there that can be signed for less than they will be worth in a couple of years. There aren't any quick fixes in FA. So, what do you do? Do you waste your cap space by signing vets that are ok, will win you a couple of games, but probably won't allow you to make the playoffs or win a title (Mo, Calderon, Foye, etc) or do you hold mini camps, scour the D-League, draft well and try to find 2-3 role players ala Green that you can keep around for the next 3+ years? Do you give the reins over to this starting lineup:

Rookie PG, rookie PG, Tinsley
Hayward, Burks, Murphy
Carroll, Williams, Neal
Favors, Evans
Kanter, Rookie Big

knowing that you have no go to guy, a big that can't stay out of foul trouble, a big that is ineffective under the hoop, no floor leader, no one to take over the game with 90 secs left, etc. Knowing that you will probably lose a lot more games than you will win.

BUT, there is a light at the end of the tunnel, and that light has FOUR beams (maybe five or six, but I'm not sold on Burks being an NBA starter or anyone in this draft). You give big minutes to Hayward, Favors, Kanter and Burks. Maybe one of those four develop into game changers. Maybe not. That's ok, because you have one more crack at it. You will end up with a top 10 pick in an amazing draft. Now you have four top 10 picks. You only need one of those to pan out. Toss in two more lottery picks, and you are pretty set up. Add to that cap space, and man, you are sitting pretty.

The big question is, are fans smart enough to look beyond 82 games and see the big picture?

 

[franklin]

We're tanking for the rebuild, so we can trade Favors and Hayward and tank for the 2016 draft, at which point we'll sell pieces and accumulate assets building to rebuild in the 2022 class that's supposed to be greatest of all time draft. Why is this so hard to understand?

 

[Lakers_Slapper]

If your trying to say that management isn't trying your an idiot!

When John and Karl left, I didn't think we would win more then 15 games with AK and Harp. as our best players. How we won as many games as we did, I'll never know. That off season we spent 110million on two players (Booz and Memo), then traded up to draft D-Will. That didn't work because we couldn't build a complete team around those three because AK's contract had a strangle hold around the jazz proverbial neck.

so we let Boozer walk and traded for Al, who by the way most jazzfans were excited about this move. That didn't work, so the jazz traded their best player for a young player in Favors and draft picks. One of those picks being Kanter, and if not for a GS obvious and blatant tank job, we'd have had a top ten pick in last years draft. Who knows maybe we'd have had the ammo to trade up past Portland to get Lillard. It was reported that the jazz tried to trade for a pick in last years draft, but teams were asking for Favors, was never going to happen.

The jazz biggest problem was outside shooting so the jazz go out and trade for Mo, and Marvin, and signed Foye. Now it looks like we are dropping Al and Millsap. We have the c4 who are all expected to get big minutes and going with a youth movement which most of us have been wanting for a long time, and have two firsts this year. Jazzfanz have been crying for the jazz to go with the youth movement. It's now going to happen and a lot of you are still acting like hurt little girls.

So don't come on here and think that building a championship team is easy to build. If this was the case the bulls wouldn't have two three consecutive chip periods the Lakers and Celtics wouldn't be considered better originations then the rest. The Thunder would have won a chip by now and LeBron would still be a Cav.


It's amazing people here still to this day think the Spurs intended to suck that year. You do realized that both Elliot and Tim Duncun both had season ending inguries and were stuck with an over the hill Dominik Willkins as there best player. Then they got lucky the jazz didn't want to draft Parker and got lucky with Ginobili in the second round. I've never seen a team be so lucky as to have a championship team fall into Thier laps. So I'm sick and tired of hearing that the jazz should follow this so called model of the Spurs unless you are suggesting we try to get lucky.

I'm not saying it should be easy, I'm just saying that it should NOT take 1/8 of a century to do this. All you mention is how, "the Jazz did this and did that, that didn't work, but THEN, they did this and did that,,,,,, that didn't work either". Really?? Well no kidding it didn't work, if it did we wouldn't be having this conversation, would we? And as far as the Spurs getting lucky, look at their salary cap, reminds you of something similar of the Jazz. You don't get lucky for over a decade. I hate the Spurs, but their management is running circles around us.

About Ak's contract, who the hell do you think presented that contract to him?? THE JAZZ. He didn't write his own contract... You state it like its AK's fault he signed for more than he was worth. I would have and so would you.
And then you mention that the Jazz tried to trade up but requested Favors, which is true. But we said, no thank you, we are going to keep Favors instead of trade up because we are going to bench him for 3 years. Where is your point at?? I swear to God I'm messaging David Stern right now.
Our biggest problem is outside shooting, so we sign 3 of the best of the worst that we can get. Ya, that will solve our outside shooting problem. Lets sign 3 guys that nobody want's because they are the best perimiter shooters for the least amount of money. That got us far didn't it?? Or in your words, "DIDN'T WORK". But thats not the management fault right???? LETS BLAME CORBIN!!! Does he suck? Yes, But who sucks worse? MANAGEMENT.

I'm happy to see that they hired Sloan for an advisor and hired Malone for a big man coach, all I can say is, Its about time. The light of the end of a 12 year black tunnel.

 

[Lakers_Slapper]

I agree. There is a lot of luck in winning a title. SA had to win the #1 pick. OKC and Chicago had to have people in front of them fall in love with bigs. Robinson and Elliot had to get hurt.

BUT, reflect this back to Utah. In today's NBA, you aren't going to find the all time leader in assists and steals and the second all time scorer in the late lottery or later. There is too much scouting. There is too much information. You can't build a contender by being a 6th-8th seed year in and year out. Eventually you will lose some players and you will have to be terrible again. It's just the nature of today's NBA. If you want a Durrant, Wade, LeBron, Harden, you have to have a top 5/6 pick. You have to suck.

So, if you are Utah, you have options right now. IF your goal is to win a title, you know you can't sign Al or Millsap, because they aren't good enough to deserve the money they will make this summer. Also, there aren't any Boozer's or Okur's out there that can be signed for less than they will be worth in a couple of years. There aren't any quick fixes in FA. So, what do you do? Do you waste your cap space by signing vets that are ok, will win you a couple of games, but probably won't allow you to make the playoffs or win a title (Mo, Calderon, Foye, etc) or do you hold mini camps, scour the D-League, draft well and try to find 2-3 role players ala Green that you can keep around for the next 3+ years? Do you give the reins over to this starting lineup:

Rookie PG, rookie PG, Tinsley
Hayward, Burks, Murphy
Carroll, Williams, Neal
Favors, Evans
Kanter, Rookie Big

knowing that you have no go to guy, a big that can't stay out of foul trouble, a big that is ineffective under the hoop, no floor leader, no one to take over the game with 90 secs left, etc. Knowing that you will probably lose a lot more games than you will win.

BUT, there is a light at the end of the tunnel, and that light has FOUR beams (maybe five or six, but I'm not sold on Burks being an NBA starter or anyone in this draft). You give big minutes to Hayward, Favors, Kanter and Burks. Maybe one of those four develop into game changers. Maybe not. That's ok, because you have one more crack at it. You will end up with a top 10 pick in an amazing draft. Now you have four top 10 picks. You only need one of those to pan out. Toss in two more lottery picks, and you are pretty set up. Add to that cap space, and man, you are sitting pretty.

The big question is, are fans smart enough to look beyond 82 games and see the big picture?

Speaking of drafting smart, should I remind everyone of our past when it comes to drafting first round players??
2007 27th overall, Morris Almond
2006 14th overall, Ronnie Brewer (not bad, but not worth a top 15 pick)
2004 14th overall, Chris Humphries (dont argue because you like Kim Kardashian)
2004 16th overall, Kirk Snyder (yes he's a coach now, like the blind leading the blind to victory)
2003 19th overall, Sasha Pavlovic, who??
2002 19th overall, Ryan Humphries, who??

What an excellent reputation we have. We are struggling to make a glass of lemonade when handed 10 lemons, a gallon of water and a pound of sugar. We need help,. Coach Sloan save us.

 

[The Midnight]

^^^

We now have Dennis. I do believe he is bringing with him some new perspectives on how to evaluate talent and drafting.