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I can’t afford this Trump economy

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LogGrad98 said:
The problem is the legislation needed is specifically to restrain the politicians and will affect their ability to cash in on their positions. That's the problem. We need them disconnected from big money more than anything else really, yet this means they are disincentivized to pass such legislation, on both sides. First and foremost we need to eliminate the lobby, yet this is where we see politicians come into office as wealthy people and leave as multimillionaires with lucrative corporate connections. Why would they ever vote against these connections when their personal benefit is so great? No way to ever get meaningful legislation passed in this context.
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This is certainly an issue and one that predates Trump by a lot. We will never have "good" federal governance if we do not figure out how to get out from under the big money choke hold on our politicians.
 
Sardines said:
So democrats good, Republicans evil. No nuance, just one good one bad. Got it.
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Onto the ignore list you go and it’s because of these types of unserious trolling posts. No different from PJF. Not sure what happened to you? Either you’re consuming weird media or your spat with me has broken your brain.

Democrats? Imperfect but fairly normal political party.
Republicans? Authoritarian party actively working to establish a fascist regime in America and align itself with fellow authoritarian broligarchs and fascists around the world.

Yes, the GOP led by Trump is the #1 problem in America today, not the Democrats.

I suggest you read what our European and Asian friends see today. Denmark, Germany, Japan, etc. read what some of their leaders and news agencies are saying. America is seen as a threat. That’s because of the GOP, guys. Not sure why you’re downplaying the fascist movement in America that threatens global stability.
 
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Sardines said:
This is certainly an issue and one that predates Trump by a lot. We will never have "good" federal governance if we do not figure out how to get out from under the big money choke hold on our politicians.
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Here if a great page detailing this. The increase in personal wealth of politicians ranges from substantial to staggering and even obscene.

Changes in Net Worth of U.S. Senators and Representatives (Personal Gain Index)

Ballotpedia: The Encyclopedia of American Politics
ballotpedia.org ballotpedia.org

Total average gains​

As compared to the yearly average gains, the total average gains percentage change looks at the total change between the first year data is available for each member<a href="https://ballotpedia.org/Changes_in_...sentatives_(Personal_Gain_Index)#cite_note-36">[36]</a> and the 2012 data. Although this data is harder to compare member-to-member because the starting year may be different, it still provides insight as to who experienced the most drastic total increases. The average change in net worth for the members in this study was 72.6 percent.
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Ten greatest overall gains​

The ten current senators and representatives listed below experienced the highest overall net worth gains (by percentage) from 2004-2012.<a href="https://ballotpedia.org/Changes_in_...ives_(Personal_Gain_Index)#cite_note-after-37">[37]</a>

CPGI-TOP-10-Graphic.png

Some experienced a decrease in net worth.

Ten greatest overall losses​

The ten current senators and representatives listed here experienced the greatest declines in net worth (by percentage) from 2004-2012.<a href="https://ballotpedia.org/Changes_in_...ives_(Personal_Gain_Index)#cite_note-after-37">[37]</a>

CPGI-BOTTOM-10-Graphic.png

But the vast majority added substantially to their wealth during their time in office. So what incentive is there for them to pass legislation affecting things like transparency of finances, term limits, or restricting/eliminating lobbying? Until we get a handle on this they will always, invariably, pass legislation that helps them get ahead, and they will always push the agenda of whoever is paying them first and foremost, and maybe if it doesn't interfere with their gravy train, the needs of their constituency will be addressed later, at a much smaller rate. They know the buttons to push to keep themselves in power, and if they push these buttons enough they can continue to enrich themselves at the expense of the regular guy because the regular guy only cares about sound bites. A couple of these buttons are abortion for republicans, LGBTQ+ representation for democrats, for example, and among plenty of others. The more extreme they are in pushing these buttons, the more likely they are to be voted in again, regardless of anything else they support and how much money they pocket. So those who scream the loudest get ahead the furthest, even if they don't for a second believe any of it.
 
LogGrad98 said:
Here if a great page detailing this. The increase in personal wealth of politicians ranges from substantial to staggering and even obscene.

Changes in Net Worth of U.S. Senators and Representatives (Personal Gain Index)

Ballotpedia: The Encyclopedia of American Politics
ballotpedia.org ballotpedia.org



Ten greatest overall gains​

The ten current senators and representatives listed below experienced the highest overall net worth gains (by percentage) from 2004-2012.<a href="https://ballotpedia.org/Changes_in_...ives_(Personal_Gain_Index)#cite_note-after-37">[37]</a>

CPGI-TOP-10-Graphic.png

Some experienced a decrease in net worth.

Ten greatest overall losses​

The ten current senators and representatives listed here experienced the greatest declines in net worth (by percentage) from 2004-2012.<a href="https://ballotpedia.org/Changes_in_...ives_(Personal_Gain_Index)#cite_note-after-37">[37]</a>

CPGI-BOTTOM-10-Graphic.png

But the vast majority added substantially to their wealth during their time in office. So what incentive is there for them to pass legislation affecting things like transparency of finances, term limits, or restricting/eliminating lobbying? Until we get a handle on this they will always, invariably, pass legislation that helps them get ahead, and they will always push the agenda of whoever is paying them first and foremost, and maybe if it doesn't interfere with their gravy train, the needs of their constituency will be addressed later, at a much smaller rate. They know the buttons to push to keep themselves in power, and if they push these buttons enough they can continue to enrich themselves at the expense of the regular guy because the regular guy only cares about sound bites. A couple of these buttons are abortion for republicans, LGBTQ+ representation for democrats, for example, and among plenty of others. The more extreme they are in pushing these buttons, the more likely they are to be voted in again, regardless of anything else they support and how much money they pocket. So those who scream the loudest get ahead the furthest, even if they don't for a second believe any of it.
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I don’t disagree that money has a malignant influence on our politics.

However, money in other liberal democracies exists. And yet they don’t have major political parties with 35 percent of the population and a cottage industry of propaganda hell bent on destroying the liberal democracy of those countries. I think both you and sardines are weirdly downplaying the threat that Trump and the GOP play on American and world politics. The root cause of Trump isn’t money in politics, but a large part of the population that has become disenchanted with democracy and modernity.
 
The Thriller said:
I don’t disagree that money has a malignant influence on our politics.

However, money in other liberal democracies exists. And yet they don’t have major political parties with 35 percent of the population and a cottage industry of propaganda hell bent on destroying the liberal democracy of those countries. I think both you and sardines are weirdly downplaying the threat that Trump and the GOP play on American and world politics. The root cause of Trump isn’t money in politics, but a large part of the population that has become disenchanted with democracy and modernity.
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We have consistently called out the threat and called for action. People are capable of holding more than one opinion on subjects like this, especially as polarized as our society is in this regard, and we just don't hold any illusions that because one side is now the most destructive party our country has ever seen that justifies belief that the other side is the exact polar opposite and perfect and saintly in every way the republicans are not. Your cult was threatened briefly and you responded as we would expect a cult member to respond. Just because we do not revere the democrats that means we suddenly espouse the republicans. That could not be further from the truth.

Realistically eliminating the lobby and supporting the rise of a third viable party would be huge in leveling out our politics and protecting us against demagogues.
 
LogGrad98 said:
We have consistently called out the threat and called for action. People are capable of holding more than one opinion on subjects like this, especially as polarized as our society is in this regard, and we just don't hold any illusions that because one side is now the most destructive party our country has ever seen that justifies belief that the other side is the exact polar opposite and perfect and saintly in every way the republicans are not. Your cult was threatened briefly and you responded as we would expect a cult member to respond. Just because we do not revere the democrats that means we suddenly espouse the republicans. That could not be further from the truth.

Realistically eliminating the lobby and supporting the rise of a third viable party would be huge in leveling out our politics and protecting us against demagogues.
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Who calls the Democrats saintly?

My cult?

lol

When your house is on fire, it’s probably not the right time to critique the handful of fire fighters who bothered showing up. Your criticism of Democrats doesn’t help. It saps energy needed to fight against fascism. If you want a third party then that’s going to come after this authoritarian movement has been defeated by those in the center and on the left. After the fire has been put out then you can envision a better future. Not until Trump and Trumpism has been defeated. Hence, why democratic allies need to unite.
 
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Fosto said:
How many Republicans are standing up to Trump? They're mostly awful, evil people. Democrats are more of a mixed bag.
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Yeah, I agree with that. I was never loyal to a political party until Trump ran for President. I will never support any Republicans who enabled Trump.

But just like we can do space missions, have a military, and provide food for the hungry, we can look at issues in our federal government that both Democrats and Republicans are responsible for while still understanding that Trump poses a special unprecedented threat to our nation.
 
The only way to make a viable 3rd party (or more) is to foundationally change away from our current representation system. The Senate as it is set up is incompatible with 3rd parties and always will be.

While I'm all for abolition of the Senate (I support a unicameral body elected by proportional representation), there's no current path to that at all and would likely require a civil war or similar level of upheaval to even get on the table as a potential option.

Talk about 3rd parties currently is just blowing air.
 
The Thriller said:
I don’t disagree that money has a malignant influence on our politics.

However, money in other liberal democracies exists. And yet they don’t have major political parties with 35 percent of the population and a cottage industry of propaganda hell bent on destroying the liberal democracy of those countries. I think both you and sardines are weirdly downplaying the threat that Trump and the GOP play on American and world politics. The root cause of Trump isn’t money in politics, but a large part of the population that has become disenchanted with democracy and modernity.
Click to expand...

Money doesn't exist to anywhere near the same extent in other liberal democracies. US politicians' main job, and what consumes most of their time, is campaigning and fund raising. It never stops, until they retire into a cushy lobbyist job given to them by their financiers.
 
The Thriller said:
Onto the ignore list you go and it’s because of these types of unserious trolling posts. No different from PJF. Not sure what happened to you? Either you’re consuming weird media or your spat with me has broken your brain.

Democrats? Imperfect but fairly normal political party.
Republicans? Authoritarian party actively working to establish a fascist regime in America and align itself with fellow authoritarian broligarchs and fascists around the world.

Yes, the GOP led by Trump is the #1 problem in America today, not the Democrats.

I suggest you read what our European and Asian friends see today. Denmark, Germany, Japan, etc. read what some of their leaders and news agencies are saying. America is seen as a threat. That’s because of the GOP, guys. Not sure why you’re downplaying the fascist movement in America that threatens global stability.
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Haha sardines perfectly summarizes your moronic cult politics and you block and feel like you must expound yet you say the exact same thing again. Blue good red bad! You are Retarded!
 
How are we supposed to eliminate the federal income tax if Donald is always messing with the tariffs? I thought tariffs were supposed to replace income taxes, right?

How are we supposed to bring back factory jobs so Americans can work amazing jobs screwing together iPhones for pennies if Donald is constantly raising and lowering tariffs every few months? Doesn’t this just send a message to companies that he can’t be relied on and all they have to do is wait until he folds?

MAGA, Trump is betraying you. He claimed to be for the working class but he folds at every turn. If he really cared about the working class, why did he mess with tariffs in the first place?

Everyone else, how has your life benefitted economically in the last 5 months? Are you better off now than a year ago?

 
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www.thebulwark.com

A Garish, Outlandish, Stunningly Corrupt Act

Trump wants Qatar to gift him a shiny new Air Force One because he thinks the Emoluments Clause is for suckers.
www.thebulwark.com www.thebulwark.com

Beware Princes Bearing Gifts​

by William Kristol

I’m old enough to remember when this was a republic. A proud republic. We were proud to be different from the principalities and powers of the old world. We were confident of our superiority to the hereditary aristocracies and monarchies that had dominated political life everywhere on the globe, and that still did in many places.

In those older and simpler days we spoke of and even believed in republican virtue. And so we nodded along to passages like this, from Federalist No. 39:

The first question that offers itself is, whether the general form and aspect of the government be strictly republican. It is evident that no other form would be reconcilable with the genius of the people of America; with the fundamental principles of the Revolution; or with that honorable determination which animates every votary of freedom, to rest all our political experiments on the capacity of mankind for self-government.
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We old republicans tended to take this “honorable determination” for granted. We also took for granted some of the provisions of the Constitution that followed from this principle. They seemed a little old-fashioned and quaint, but still meaningful—such as Article I, Section 9, Clause 8.

No Title of Nobility shall be granted by the United States: And no Person holding any Office of Profit or Trust under them, shall, without the Consent of the Congress, accept of any present, Emolument, Office, or Title, of any kind whatever, from any King, Prince, or foreign State.
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How naïve we were back then.

Now, the president of the United States is boasting of receiving as a gift a luxury Boeing 747-8 plane from the Qatari royal family. The plane will be upgraded to serve not as the Air Force One but as his Air Force One, since it will only be available for use by the government of the United States during his time in office. It will then revert to him—well, nominally to his presidential library, but it will of course be totally at his disposal—after he leaves office.

This sure seems like a “present” or “emolument” to a person holding “an office of trust” from “a King, Prince, or foreign state.”

But not to worry. Attorney General Pam Bondi—once a registered lobbyist for Qatar, as it happens—has concluded that the transaction is permissible under U.S. law and the Constitution.

How nice that the Trump administration still pretends to maintain some façade of respect for the Constitution even as it flouts it.

But Trump can’t really conceal his contempt for the old republican ways. Last night, he posted this on social media:

So the fact that the Defense Department is getting a GIFT, FREE OF CHARGE, of a 747 aircraft to replace the 40 year old Air Force One, temporarily, in a very public and transparent transaction, so bothers the Crooked Democrats that they insist we pay, TOP DOLLAR, for the plane. Anybody can do that! The Dems are World Class Losers!!!
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This is the voice of old-world autocracy. Those who take seriously the constraints and requirements of republican government are fools. Those who care that our republican government not be dependent on foreign states, that our elected leaders not take favors from foreign princes, they are losers.

Leave aside all the questions about Qatar’s ties with Iran and Hamas. Leave aside that Qatar, on the other hand, has been designated a major non-NATO ally, and that Qatar hosts the largest U.S. military installation in the Middle East.

This isn’t about Qatar. It’s about us.
 
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