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I was thinking about it the other day...

LogGrad98 said:
I think of this in terms of personal salvation. Lucifer is like a force of nature. If he is truly the one you feel you must forgive or come to peace with to attain the blessings of the atonement, then by all means do so, and pray for him directly. Even just thinking about this may be a prompting that you need to do so, even if just in your own personal prayers. But for me I know there are bigger fish to fry, and they are in my life right now. I never really viewed it as Lucifer is the Almighty Evil Force without which we would all be angels dressed in blue jeans and t-shirts wandering around doing good to others all day. I also never viewed him as God's "muscle", who steps in to torture us because God with his white cotton gloves could never get his hands dirty that way, but hey, someone has to do it, right? I don't buy into that.
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Why do God's white gloves have to be cotton? Can't they be latex? Or rubber?
 
Howard said:
If you're going to quote the Bible, it generally helps to know what you're talking about. No need for you to be so condescending about something you don't understand or don't have knowledge about.

You're still getting it wrong btw. If you'd like to have a decent conversation and ask about it, then I will, but if you're going to be like this, there really is no point.
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Do you believe the bible to be true in a literal sense? Or just in a spiritual sense?
 
TroutBum said:
Is this from your brother?

Is Lucifer technically considered a demon? How does one become a "demon"? I would assume that child rapists and serial killers would fall into the "clutches of eternal damnation" as well, but I'm pretty sure we're still taught to pray for them, right?

Also, if my human brother was somehow turned into the vilest scumbag the Universe has ever known, I'm still going to pray for his ***, and I'd still have faith that it could help. Lucifer is our brother, right? Why wouldn't we? I don't know if I like the idea of scripture saying, "Um, that guy is just too bad -- don't waste your time on him" -- that doesn't seem right.
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Trying to apply logic to religion. Lol.
 
Howard said:
Could you expound a little further? I don't want to give a poor answer. Thanks.
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The 7,000 year history, job getting puked up by a whale, talking donkeys, Jehovah being angry and spiteful until God all of a sudden has a change of heart and tells everyone to love each other?

I think the bible is great and inspiring, but I do not think it is historically accurate nor is it completely representative of who God is, at least in my opinion. The New Testament is a lot more applicable and probably more accurate, but there are even some things that don't relate to modern life in there.

If you take the bible at face value, you would have to do a lot of things differently, like tell your wife she needs to shut up in public, not associate with anyone who has ever been divorced, don't eat pork, and a host of other things that supposed "literal believers" of the bible ignore when it comes to preaching and obedience time.

In other words, I believe in the bible, but I am honest with myself as to its utility.
 
b_line said:
The 7,000 year history, job getting puked up by a whale, talking donkeys, Jehovah being angry and spiteful until God all of a sudden has a change of heart and tells everyone to love each other?

I think the bible is great and inspiring, but I do not think it is historically accurate nor is it completely representative of who God is, at least in my opinion. The New Testament is a lot more applicable and probably more accurate, but there are even some things that don't relate to modern life in there.

If you take the bible at face value, you would have to do a lot of things differently, like tell your wife she needs to shut up in public, not associate with anyone who has ever been divorced, don't eat pork, and a host of other things that supposed "literal believers" of the bible ignore when it comes to preaching and obedience time.

In other words, I believe in the bible, but I am honest with myself as to its utility.
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Yes, I do take the Bible literally. I have no reason not to. Is Job being swallowed up more outlandish than Jesus being born of a virgin and then resurrecting? I realize the logic doesn't always make sense, but God is more powerful than humans, His logic does not need to equal ours. It shouldn't either. We don't have perfect logic, He does.

As for all the old laws, you don't need to follow those. They were fulfilled. We just need Jesus now. And let's be honest, is killing His enemies more spiteful than telling those who don't believe that they're going to Hell?
 
Howard said:
Yes, I do take the Bible literally. I have no reason not to. Is Job being swallowed up more outlandish than Jesus being born of a virgin and then resurrecting? I realize the logic doesn't always make sense, but God is more powerful than humans, His logic does not need to equal ours. It shouldn't either. We don't have perfect logic, He does.

As for all the old laws, you don't need to follow those. They were fulfilled. We just need Jesus now. And let's be honest, is killing His enemies more spiteful than telling those who don't believe that they're going to Hell?
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Why do intelligent people become willing to suspend the rules of logic and scientific inquiry whenever this one topic is discussed. It's crazy. Has it ever occured to you that if you had been raised in an Arab family you would have almost certainly become Muslim, or if you were raised in a Budhist family the chances you would have become Budhist are almost 100%. So are you equally okay with the mental gyrations people in those religions go through in order to fully support their religions? Is there any topic other than religion where you would be willing to make similar accomidations to common sense in order to come to the conclusions you feel you are required to?
 
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