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If NY amnestied Billups - do we want him??

freakazoid said:
Which is the whole point. The bid system is specifically designed to prevent highly paid players like Billups from running to teams like Miami to play for the minimum.
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I get that. Billups is just trying to do anything to prevent being claimed so he can determine his own future. If there's a 30 day rule, there's less fear, but still plenty of uncertainty since he doesn't know if the team will actually want to deal him. If the July 1 rule holds, he's "screwed" making 14 million for a team that won't win.

The argument is whether Billups' threats hold water. I don't think any NBA team really believes Billups will intentionally underperform or call in sick. Every GM needs to win in order to save his job. And Billups needs to be attractive to the teams he wants to play for no matter what the rules are. So everybody is going to win in acquiring Billups no matter what he says publicly.
 
billyshelby said:
Billups is just trying to do anything to prevent being claimed so he can determine his own future.
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Agree. He's trying to bluff his way into being able to do specifically what the bid system is meant to prevent. As for his future, he is only a few months away from being an FA anyway. Maybe next time he will take control of his destiny by signing a shorter contract.

Verlin said:
Billups sounds as surly as D-Will. Did not think that was possible.
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This whole thing with Billups just makes me respect Deron that much more. Deron left his options open by signing a shorter contract, as opposed to taking the money and then bitching about having to follow through with the contract that he signed. Deron wasn't perfect, but I respect him a lot more than these guys who demand trades, and cry because they are for some reason expected to stick to a contract they signed for big money.
 
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Hotttnickkk said:
When I pay for a painter to pain my house I don't:

1) "guarantee" their fee (i.e., whether or not they paint it or not)
2) have them complained to me about the colours I've asked them to use half way through the job; and
3) refuse to do the job properly.

Why should these guys be any different?
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Because they are the best at what they do on the entire earth, playing for a league that is far and away the highest level of competition and highest generator of revenue in the sport. You (and many of the generally pro-business Utahns that inhabit this board and fanbase) seem to have this absurd notion in your head that these are just some thugs picked up off the street and given everything.

I don't like guaranteed contracts either, but that's what happens when you gain leverage for being fantastic - as a whole - at what you do and be an ABSOLUTE NECESSITY to generate revenue for your bosses.

I wish I was surprised that you don't see the difference.
 
I'd be vindictive enough as an owner to claim him and if he bitches and tries to force his way out to do whatever I could to see he never got a contract in the NBA again.
 
NUMBERICA said:
Because they are the best at what they do on the entire earth, playing for a league that is far and away the highest level of competition and highest generator of revenue in the sport. You (and many of the generally pro-business Utahns that inhabit this board and fanbase) seem to have this absurd notion in your head that these are just some thugs picked up off the street and given everything.

I don't like guaranteed contracts either, but that's what happens when you gain leverage for being fantastic - as a whole - at what you do and be an ABSOLUTE NECESSITY to generate revenue for your bosses.

I wish I was surprised that you don't see the difference.
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Wait... WHAT?

Just because they're "fantastic" they can get away with signing a contract and not honoring it? What planet are you living in??

Legal obligation
These guys know the drill, you sign a guaranteed contract, you may be get traded. That's the business. Just deal with it. Don't like it? Then don't sign the contract in the first place. It's not about them being "thugs" or not. Signing a contract means you are obligated - thugs or otherwise.

"Absolute necessity to generate revenue"
C'mon we all know the reason these guys have reached this level of popularity is because of the marketing machine that is the NBA in the first place. It starts from the moment they're drafted, the BIG event, there's cameras following them everywhere, ESPN, etc, etc, etc.

If the NBA were to start afresh with a set of rules + new system + new crop of rookies plus some D-league players this year - OK it may take 5-10 years to get up to the same level of competitiveness. But I bet with the likes of Barnes, Sullinger, Rivers, etc coming through each year the league would be up to a certain level of competition in not too long and these players will become household names - while the likes of Kobe/Paul, etc, will be riding buses in Europe/China if they decide not to join.

Remember a few years back when the refs were on strike and the NBA quickly trialled a new batch of "newbie refs"? The old refs quickly caved cos they know that if they don't, eventually these "newbie refs" would take their jobs.

"Fantastic" is relative
Imagine if the NBA start with a brand new fresh crop of players as stated above. With clever marketing and a 24/7 ESPN coverage, these new guys (say, Barnes, Sullinger, Rivers, Davis) will quickly become household name. And in 5 years time? We'll be saying "Kobe who?".

Start your own league
Yeah - why not?? If they hate the system so much. If they're not OK with the "business" side of the business. I don't see them doing that. Why? Because they know that even if they have their own league, the same issues will arise. Except the players will be arguing amongst themselves instead of to the owners.

New CBA
There's a reason the players got shafted in the new CBA. The players need the NBA - not the other way round.
 
utahjazz107 said:
Billups came into the league as a shooting guard and bounced around teams until he found the Pistons. I respect Billups a lot and he just wants to play the game with a team that wants to keep him. He never wanted to get traded to the Knicks but since Melo wanted out of the Nuggets, the trade only worked if the Knicks got Billups too. I'm pretty sure Billups said he didn't want to leave Denver and then the Knicks picked up his option after the reason so It looked like they wanted him and now they are using the amnesty clause on him. I don't blame him at all. I would do the exact same thing especially when money isn't an issue anymore
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He definitely wanted - was planning - to finish his career in Denver. He was born and raised there, and as much as Melo wanted to get back to finish his career in his hometown, that's exactly what Billups was hoping to do.

edit: found this on his wikipedia entry:
Despite publicly professing his desire to finish his career in hometown Denver and retire as a Nugget, Billups was traded to the New York Knicks on February 22, 2011[10] as part of the Carmelo Anthony deal. Billups was "collateral damage"—as more than one sportswriter put it—of Carmelo Anthony's desire to play in New York and the Nuggets' desire to trade Anthony before he became a free agent.[11] "Oh it was hard, hardest thing I've ever had to do," Billups said. "I had to tell my girls that daddy was traded, that he was leaving to play across the country. I told them it wasn't my choice, that nothing could be done about it. I had to go. It wasn't a happy scene."[12]

Billups suffered a knee injury while playing against the Celtics in Game 1 of the 2011 NBA Playoffs. The injury would keep Billups sidelined for the remainder of the playoffs.[13]
Shortly after the Knicks were dismissed from the playoffs by the Boston Celtics, Billups mentioned he would love to return to the Knicks next season. “I would love the opportunity to really try it up with these guys,” Billups said. “Not like play 30 games after a trade, like really have a season. Have an opportunity to really get a fair shake with these guys. I would love to."[14]
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So he adjusted to the NYK trade and wanted to stay there....


freakazoid said:
...These players want the guaranteed money, but they act like once they get it they shouldn't have to honor their agreement. Some of his quotes about how badly he's been treated just make me wanna puke. Nobody twisted his arm to sign a multi-year deal for big money. It seems to me these guys want to have their cake and eat it too.
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yeah, this is the part I don't get either. Why not just sign one or two year deals if it's so important that you control your own destiny. I try to avoid the "overpaid, selfish, just playing a game" type of argument, but even a minimum contract for these guys is still a lot of money. Things like this make me feel that some of them need to get their priorities straight and/or need a heavy dose of reality.
 
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also, this makes me wonder just which side is driving the longer terms - is it strictly the players, or would a team prefer a 3-4 year contract over a 1-2 year deal? It gives the team more options when the contract is a bit longer, doesn't it?
 
NUMBERICA said:
I know, man. Reality is hard to understand.
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Negative Rep? Are you kidding me?

Well I can expect that actually from someone who supports these players' immature complaining, whining, ME FIRST attitude.

Hey - here's a thought - instead of negative rep me for actually putting my argument forward - why don't you come up with your own argument for/against what I outlined in my post? Lay out your argument HERE in public instead of behind everyone's back.

I could understand it if you'd just kept quiet for not agreeing. Or agree to disagree.

But to Negative Rep me for putting forward my opinions? Wow.. that's really rich..
 
Hotttnickkk said:
Negative Rep? Are you kidding me?

Well I can expect that actually from someone who supports these players' immature complaining, whining, ME FIRST attitude.

Hey - here's a thought - instead of negative rep me for actually putting my argument forward - why don't you come up with your own argument for/against what I outlined in my post? Lay out your argument HERE in public instead of behind everyone's back.

I could understand it if you'd just kept quiet for not agreeing. Or agree to disagree.

But to Negative Rep me for putting forward my opinions? Wow.. that's really rich..
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seeing hotttnickkk getting so work up over internet rep conjures this image to my mind:

Cry.gif
 
moevillini said:
also, this makes me wonder just which side is driving the longer terms - is it strictly the players, or would a team prefer a 3-4 year contract over a 1-2 year deal? It gives the team more options when the contract is a bit longer, doesn't it?
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No doubt there are benefits on both sides. I'm just sick of some of these players who want the security of a longer deal, but then bitch about the obligation that comes with it. The owners have to make the same kind of compromises. By locking a player in on a long term deal, they risk having to pay an injured player to sit in a suit, or having a player that is overpaid by the end of the contract. Both sides know what they're getting into when they agree to a contract. It just seems that some of the players feel they should be entitled to the benefits of their contract, but at the same time shouldn't have to honor it.

It's not enough to have guaranteed money, but I guess Chauncy's contract should have guaranteed him a starting spot on a winning team as well.

billyshelby said:
Pretty sure you can't do this. I could be wrong, but I thought a team who acquires an amnesty player cant trade him till July 1.
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I found this today, and it appears you may be right. Still haven't found anything official.
https://www.sun-sentinel.com/sports/miami-heat/sfl-miami-heat-nba-amnesty-s121111,0,270375.story
However, a league source clarified Sunday that a player claimed under the process cannot then be traded to another team until July 1.
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Also, I'm starting to get the feeling the owners might make me eat crow as to some of my comments in this thread. We'll know by 6:00 pm tomorrow. If they do let Billups clear waivers and run to Miami, I will be rooting for the Heat to make them regret it. That would suck.
 
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