Ingles is awful; Major black eye for DL

[stitches]

All the takes are looking bad. It's just the facts. You might be right in the long run, but it's not looking like it.

And yeah, Rubio's success in the system goes beyond a hot shooting streak.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/r/rubiori01/on-off/2018
First time in his career his team is better with him off the floor.

http://www.espn.com/nba/statistics/rpm/_/sort/RPM/position/1
First time in his career he ranks out of the top 12 PGs in the league by RPM

To me it's weird how everybody forgot the first 40 games of the season because of a 10 games stretch where he's shooting 50% from 3. What's more likely - he suddenly became a shooter or it's just a hot streak that will regress to his mean?

 

[sahlensguy]

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/r/rubiori01/on-off/2018
First time in his career his team is better with him off the floor.

http://www.espn.com/nba/statistics/rpm/_/sort/RPM/position/1
First time in his career he ranks out of the top 12 PGs in the league by RPM

To me it's weird how everybody forgot the first 40 games of the season because of a 10 games stretch where he's shooting 50% from 3. What's more likely - he suddenly became a shooter or it's just a hot streak that will regress to his mean?

Consider that Rubio played that brutal December schedule on a new team with a new system. Give him just a little rope.

 

[freakazoid]

What's the Rubio take? That he doesn't fit with the system and with Gobert and Favors? I stand behind this one. Unless you think this last stretch of him shooting 50% from 3 and scoring 20 points a game is sustainable... if he somehow manages to keep shooting 50% from 3 and continues scoring and going to the rim like he's never done before... I guess I would agree.

What's the Crowder take? We will see about it.

Same with the Ingles take since it's always been about the long-term prospects of his contract.

I hate to pile on, almost as much as I hate agreeing with Cy about anything, but I think he has a point. You've been so convinced that anything besides a nuclear tank is such a huge mistake, that you've trashed every move DL has made. With Crowder you even suggested he may be a negative contract in Utah. You said that Ingles contract may be unmovable and that you doubted anyone would take it. As for Rubio, his impact lately goes beyond just shooting better. He's been able to break down defenses and get to the rim when the offense is struggling. Right now he's probably the most important player to our offense, or at least equally important as DM.

I don't want to trash you too hard, because it may just jinx the team into a losing streak, but right now it's looking like this team is about as good as last year and maybe better. It just took some time to jell because of Rudy's injuries and all the new players. You called it delusional when we suggested this early on. It's one thing to think that before we knew what Mitchell was, but now that we know we haven't lost much in terms of Hill/Hayward leaving, it seems like pure stubbornness to stick to the idea it was a mistake not to tank.

Like I said though, things could still end up being a disaster like you predicted, but if the team continues winning like they have been, at some point you're going to have to admit to being wrong about a couple things.

 

[stitches]

I hate to pile on, almost as much as I hate agreeing with Cy about anything, but I think he has a point. You've been so convinced that anything besides a nuclear tank is such a huge mistake, that you've trashed every move DL has made. With Crowder you even suggested he may be a negative contract in Utah. You said that Ingles contract may be unmovable and that you doubted anyone would take it. As for Rubio, his impact lately goes beyond just shooting better. He's been able to break down defenses and get to the rim when the offense is struggling. Right now he's probably the most important player to our offense, or at least equally important as DM.

I don't want to trash you too hard, because it may just jinx the team into a losing streak, but right now it's looking like this team is about as good as last year and maybe better. It just took some time to jell because of Rudy's injuries and all the new players. You called it delusional when we suggested this early on. It's one thing to think that before we knew what Mitchell was, but now that we know we haven't lost much in terms of Hill/Hayward leaving, it seems like pure stubbornness to stick to the idea it was a mistake not to tank.

Like I said though, things could still end up being a disaster like you predicted, but if the team continues winning like they have been, at some point you're going to have to admit to being wrong about a couple things.

My fear for the path DL has chosen is not that it will end in disaster. That's never been it. My fear is that it will end in mediocrity, in first round exits or late lottery picks for the foreseable future. I won't pretend like I didn't want us to do a single year super tank, especially when Rudy went down. I still would take a top 5 pick over a first round exit if that's the choice I'm given. But I also won't lie about that roll we've been on - it's extremely fun and it gives me hopes that maybe the ceiling is higher than I thought initially(btw pretty much all of it is connected to Mitchell being MUCH better than anyone could have imagined pre-season).

I still think Ingles' contract might be unmovable in years 3-4, although him taking another step forward this year doesn't bode well for my prediction... which is good. Rubio is still a massive negative for the team on the season and only a 10 games stretch in which he's posting Steve Nash numbers is making people dream about this one actually working out. What's the chance Ricky Rubio suddenly turned into Steve Nash? Like... flipped a switch in year 7, game 45 of his career and that's what he's going to be going forward? I just don't believe it. There might be marginal improvements, but overall I think Ricky is who Ricky has been. I don't know how this is a hot take or something? About Crowder... lets wait and see how he gels with the team. So far, so good. And believe me, I'd much rather be wrong on all of those than watch the team get stuck with bad contracts and/or bad fitting players.

 

[NAOS]

My fear for the path DL has chosen is not that it will end in disaster. That's never been it. My fear is that it will end in mediocrity, in first round exits or late lottery picks for the foreseable future. I won't pretend like I didn't want us to do a single year super tank, especially when Rudy went down. I still would take a top 5 pick over a first round exit if that's the choice I'm given. But I also won't lie about that roll we've been on - it's extremely fun and it gives me hopes that maybe the ceiling is higher than I thought initially(btw pretty much all of it is connected to Mitchell being MUCH better than anyone could have imagined pre-season).

I still think Ingles' contract might be unmovable in years 3-4, although him taking another step forward this year doesn't bode well for my prediction... which is good. Rubio is still a massive negative for the team on the season and only a 10 games stretch in which he's posting Steve Nash numbers is making people dream about this one actually working out. What's the chance Ricky Rubio suddenly turned into Steve Nash? Like... flipped a switch in year 7, game 45 of his career and that's what he's going to be going forward? I just don't believe it. There might be marginal improvements, but overall I think Ricky is who Ricky has been. I don't know how this is a hot take or something? About Crowder... lets wait and see how he gels with the team. So far, so good. And believe me, I'd much rather be wrong on all of those than watch the team get stuck with bad contracts and/or bad fitting players.

Ricky has had two different 10-game bursts. In between was a huge run of injuries.

 

[Ron Mexico]

DL is building the future Spurs that will be a great team for a long time. We can plug the right guys into our system and be good.

We have our Duncan level player in Mitchell, we have other great players and great fitting role players. I trust us to start to become a consistent top 4 western team that will have chances to get lucky and win it all.

 

[sahlensguy]

Ingles with his third 20 point game in a row. Very impressive considering that each of the first two games set a career high for points.

 

[Jack Strop]

My fear for the path DL has chosen is not that it will end in disaster. That's never been it. My fear is that it will end in mediocrity, in first round exits or late lottery picks for the foreseable future. I won't pretend like I didn't want us to do a single year super tank, especially when Rudy went down. I still would take a top 5 pick over a first round exit if that's the choice I'm given.

Top-5 pick was never going to happen, even if Rudy had been out for the year. Jazz were 19-28 when they started their streak. That's a .400 pace. But let's assume instead of 10-0, the Jazz go 3-7 over their last 10. That puts them at 22 wins.

Sacramento is now at 17-38
Dallas, Phoenix, Memphis, Orlando, Atlanta, Orlando all have 18 wins
Brooklyn has 19 and Chicago has 20.

That's 9 teams that would have had worse records who have all been no better than 4-6 over their last 10. Utah wouldn't have been the only team "tanking." And the only way to truly tank would be to trade Ingles, Rubio, Favors along with Hood. I'm not sure that does it, tbh. You still want to keep Gobert, Mitchell and O'Neale. And you can't trade everyone, so you still have some other good role players who would contribute. I think Utah gets as many wins as the bottom 5-6 teams. And to catch them, the Jazz have to lose at twice their pace.

 

[Nate505]

I dont' know if I said anything but I certainly thought that Ingles was a 20mpg guy and we vastly overpaid.

Yeah, I thought at best he was a great glue guy would could get maybe 10 a game and could hit some timely shots. Didn't for a second think he would have multiple 20 point games in a season, let alone be the court general he's been. Kudos for him, especially for massively improving his game after signing a big contract.

 

[fallenchicken]

This thread, as well as multiple others clearly explain why DL is in charge and not us armchair GM's. We like to think we know whats best for the team, while people actually in the position do know.

Basically the only two people who should have any input on the Jazz are Dennis Lindsey and me. The rest of you need to sit down and know your place. Trust us.

 

[Aneurism]

The only gripe I have about Ingles and perhaps someone might know how to get the answer, but what percentage of bounce passes from Ingles to Gobert leads to a turnover.. to me it feels like 70 or 80%?

Edit: Actually I just remembered another gripe where he steps out of bounds when he begins to dribble the ball.

 

[Getting Traded]

The only gripe I have about Ingles and perhaps someone might know how to get the answer, but what percentage of bounce passes from Ingles to Gobert leads to a turnover.. to me it feels like 70 or 80%?

Edit: Actually I just remembered another gripe where he steps out of bounds when he begins to dribble the ball.

That actually should be a gripe against Rudy. He needs to be able to handle those passes. He needs to work on the coordination of his hands with his movement.