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Iraq Is Cracking Apart

The Thriller said:
Right.

And there's a book out that "demonstrates" how FDR knew about Pearl Harbor and purposely put old battleships (not new aircraft carriers) at Pearl Harbor to be bombed.

So I guess because it's written and has a cool cover it must be true!
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She probably didn't read it anyway. More than likely she was just listening when the author was a guest on the Alex Jones show.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GkQqMafg3UY
 
George Bush, Dick Cheney, Karl Rove and that entire administration should be charged for war crimes. They went in without knowing where the WMD's were - running the risk of Iraq setting off the Nukes/Chemical Warheads before we found them. When it turned out there were none to be found, we just stirred up a hornets nest and subjected US troops to danger for the rest of time (you're clueless if you think there will be a point in time with no more US presence there).

I hope you conservatives who 'would love to have a beer with Bush' that voted him in twice are happy for the terror YOU have created. Christian conservatives in the USA are no better than those who share the same faith as the Taliban but don't carry out any violence.
 
The Thriller said:
I love how Fox news is blaming this on "obama's" troop withdrawal from 2011. They claim that Obama hates Santa and fireworks and took out the troops before Iraq was ready.

Interestingly enough, fox news failed to report (not on purpose, I'm sure...) that it was actually a negotiated withdrawal between the Iraqi government and that one American president from 2008 fox news never talks about. In fact, we wanted to stay longer but it was the Iraqi government (that is being overthrown) that demanded that we leave in 2011.
They wanted us out in 2011!!!

Already, I'm seeing on my Facebook news feed people blaming Obama for this.

I guess facts and studying our own (very recent) history is just too hard. Either that or partisanship is more important than anything. No wonder why our democracy is falling apart. Meh!

EDIT: the dnews is blaming Obama too:

www.deseretnews.com/article/8656051...-questioning-previous-and-future-efforts.html
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Dude. I always wonder this guy. If u are so very mad at the stupids, my friend, why u listen to stupids with obsession qualities? I mean, this thing it make no sense. You hate you hate more you post hate for. Is this thing good health?
 
HighlandHomie said:
George Bush, Dick Cheney, Karl Rove and that entire administration should be charged for war crimes. They went in without knowing where the WMD's were - running the risk of Iraq setting off the Nukes/Chemical Warheads before we found them. When it turned out there were none to be found, we just stirred up a hornets nest and subjected US troops to danger for the rest of time (you're clueless if you think there will be a point in time with no more US presence there).

I hope you conservatives who 'would love to have a beer with Bush' that voted him in twice are happy for the terror YOU have created. Christian conservatives in the USA are no better than those who share the same faith as the Taliban but don't carry out any violence.
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Such a sad and silly statement. I recall many non conservatives voting to go to war too. Let's leave it at that.
 
trigg3r said:
Such a sad and silly statement. I recall many non conservatives voting to go to war too. Let's leave it at that.
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Let's not.

We invaded a country and overthrew it's government under false pretenses. Just because some dems agreed with the decision, it doesn't change the fact that a decision was made, and only certain people were responsible for that decision. Sorry, my friend, but the war crimes argument is legit. Given the circumstances, any other country that had done the same would likely be looking at sanctions at the very least, and depending on who it was, could very possibly be facing charges of war crimes.
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All men may be created equal, but when you put those men into very large groups called countries, we hold ourselves as above the law. If the U.S.A. is the world police, unfortunately we've become a bad cop. However, just because the law doesn't apply to us, right and wrong remain an unshakeable truth, which can't be denied when we are truly honest with ourselves.
 
freakazoid said:
Let's not.

We invaded a country and overthrew it's government under false pretenses. Just because some dems agreed with the decision, it doesn't change the fact that a decision was made, and only certain people were responsible for that decision. Sorry, my friend, but the war crimes argument is legit. Given the circumstances, any other country that had done the same would likely be looking at sanctions at the very least, and depending on who it was, could very possibly be facing charges of war crimes.
-

All men may be created equal, but when you put those men into very large groups called countries, we hold ourselves as above the law. If the U.S.A. is the world police, unfortunately we've become a bad cop. However, just because the law doesn't apply to us, right and wrong remain an unshakeable truth, which can't be denied when we are truly honest with ourselves.
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If you can prove the intelligence leading to the decision to invade was fabricated by the administration then I will be right beside you calling for a war crimes trial. Since you can't, and nobody on the other side of the aisle can then it's really not worth getting into an argument over. The whole Bush lied and people died mantra is so bogus. Let's all face the fact that the intelligence was bad and both parties put us in the **** storm that we are currently in. Are the Republicans and the Bush Administration more deserving of blame? Sure. I think that's fair to say. I don't think Democrats that voted to invade should be let off the hook either and that's where people with an opposite political persuasion tend to have selective memory.

I would also like to add that we weren't alone in having bad intelligence on the topic. Many other countries believed there were weapons as well.
 
trigg3r said:
The whole Bush lied and people died mantra is so bogus. Let's all face the fact that the intelligence was bad and both parties put us in the **** storm that we are currently in.
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How can you defend the logic of going in unsure of where WMD's are for the mere chance the WMD's could be set off? Let's put aside the fact there were none to begin with and pretend there were - Criminally irresponsible choice by the Conservatives in charge if you ask me.
 
HighlandHomie said:
How can you defend the logic of going in unsure of where WMD's are for the mere chance the WMD's could be set off? Let's put aside the fact there were none to begin with and pretend there were - Criminally irresponsible choice by the Conservatives in charge if you ask me.
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At the time I would say the majority of the international community believed there were WMDs and that Iraq posed a threat to its neighbors and the world. That was proven not to be the case. It was the biggest intelligence blunder that I can recall. I am not going to hold the POTUS at the time criminally responsible for acting on bad intelligence just as I am not going to hold our current POTUS responsible for drone strikes that take out top AQ leaders. Tough decisions have to be made when you are the POTUS and not all of them are going to be right or popular. If you could prove to me that Bush knowingly sent troops into Iraq after fabricating the intelligence that swayed us into going to war that would be an entirely different thing. I would be right there with you. Since you can't, I can't hold the man criminally responsible. He seems like a pretty decent guy. I am sure he deeply regrets certain things in his Presidency and this one likely is at the top of the list.
 
trigg3r said:
At the time I would say the majority of the international community believed there were WMDs and that Iraq posed a threat to its neighbors and the world. That was proven not to be the case. It was the biggest intelligence blunder that I can recall. I am not going to hold the POTUS at the time criminally responsible for acting on bad intelligence just as I am not going to hold our current POTUS responsible for drone strikes that take out top AQ leaders. Tough decisions have to be made when you are the POTUS and not all of them are going to be right or popular. If you could prove to me that Bush knowingly sent troops into Iraq after fabricating the intelligence that swayed us into going to war that would be an entirely different thing. I would be right there with you. Since you can't, I can't hold the man criminally responsible. He seems like a pretty decent guy. I am sure he deeply regrets certain things in his Presidency and this one likely is at the top of the list.
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You may want to look up the literally hundreds of books that detail exactly what you're asking for.

The best one however, is called Fiasco.

It details how the Bush administration influenced the intelligence community to give him (president Bush) the answers he wanted. They were then looking for evidence that supported the idea that Saddam had WMDs. Rather than look for intell and then draw conclusions from what you gathered.

The mere fact that he had a bone to pick with Iraq was demonstrated in that inside his administration he was already discussing how to best take out Saddam even before 9/11. After he was done reading to the kiddos at the school, he asked whether or not Iraq was behind the 9/11 attacks. He clearly had a hang up with Iraq which began with his father's decision to not take Bagdad during the Persian Gulf war.

As far as "the majority" of the international community? Very debatable. France and Germany didn't believe that he did. However, Saddam wanted to be convincing that he did have WMDs. Why? Because look at his next door neighbor. As long as Iran thought he had them, they wouldn't mess with him.

See, Iran and Iraq aren't friends. Yes, they're Muslim. But Saddam and his government was Sunni and Iran is dominated by Shiites.

Of course, the Bush administration didn't really consider this. Especially the clown on top, because rather than read he relied on "gut instincts." And your everyday Joe Sixpack can't tell the difference between a Muslim or a Jew anyway. Who knew? Well, many in the academia world. But they were ignored or labeled liberal weenies who were with the terrorist. I had a professor at Uvu, a Vietnam vet, who was egged on campus while protesting the war with fellow professor and students.

Freedom fries!!! USA USA USA!
 
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