Is Anything Going to Happen Tomorrow?

[framer]

Locke brought up an interesting point about the heavy protection route, and that's that it seriously hampers trade flexibility in the future, because of the stepien rule. Say the trade is set up so that Chicago receives a first round pick top 20 protected this year, top 15 protected 2019, top 10 protected 2020, then two 2nds afterwards. The problem with doing that, is that the Jazz are now unable to use a first round pick in a trade until two years after the last possible conveying point of that protected first rounder. Speaking purely hypothetically (this example isn't at all based in reality), say Golden State wants to send the Jazz Klay Thompson for Rodney Hood at their 2021 first round pick next year at the deadline. The Jazz couldn't do the trade, because Chicago holds hypothetical ownership of each first through 2020, meaning 2021 is off limits, per the stepien rule (until the pick actually conveys, if it does so earlier).

In this way the seemingly awesome 'fake first' situation ends up being a pretty significant strangle on trade flexibility.

Completely overwrought because the most important pick, the one in the lottery, we keep. Keeping top 20 picks is far more important than hypothetical future trade fodder. Keeping today's asset, and keeping the top 20 pick is the best possible outcome.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

List all the other teams that tanked for a championship and never got one... That list is a lot longer than the list of teams that tanked and then won.

List all the teams that failed to get a championship building through trades... then the ones that did it through free agency... and the ones that failed to win championships through late lotto picks.

The list of teams that have won championships through various methods of team building is naturally much shorter than the list of teams that have failed... only one champ and there are 29 losers.

We will have to build a contender through the draft... the better that pick the better our chance of getting the pieces necessary. It is a low percentage venture but we are choosing between low percentage ventures and that one has the best chance at netting us a contender.

 

[radiohegel]

Completely overwrought because the most important pick, the one in the lottery, we keep. Keeping top 20 picks is far more important than hypothetical future trade fodder. Keeping today's asset, and keeping the top 20 pick is the best possible outcome.

I'm not a proponent of trading a first at all. The question I'm addressing isn't "do we trade this year's pick unprotected, or put protections on it", but rather, "do we not offer a first at all, or should we offer a heavily protected 'fake first'?" At a glance, the fake first route seems like a good situation without super obvious consequences. All I'm trying to point out is that it does have some bad side effects, so it is probably not worth going that route either. I'd offer them maybe a couple seconds up front, or nothing.

 

[NUMBERICA]

List all the other teams that tanked for a championship and never got one... That list is a lot longer than the list of teams that tanked and then won.

Most teams haven't won a championship, period.

 

[radiohegel]

I’m also talking top 18-20 protected this year and if it does not convert they get our second and a 2019 second. So no more limitations.

I'd probably support this, but at that point Chicago is just accepting the two second rounders and taking a symbolic pick for PR purposes, I guess.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

For those that argue against tanking. You need a top 5 player and a couple top 20 players to win it all. We are not getting those types in free agency and to get one in trade you will need to pay an arm and a leg. Tanking gives us a better chance to get one more of those guys.

I think DM and Gobert can get there... but we have a chance to add one more... say it’s a 15% chance... that’s a better chance than relying on FA or a trade. If you fail to get the top 3 pick and end up 8 or 9 you have a better chance getting an all star than at 12-14. They don’t all hit... I get it.

Philly whiffed on one or maybe two but if Embiid stays healthy and Fultz figures things out they have a championship core... plus other picks and free agent dollars up they *** to bring in proven guys. They took tanking to the next level and it has worked even though they didn’t execute perfectly.

SA tanked for Duncan... GS tanked... SA also traded a proven player for a late first round pick.

Our draft capital is more important than the flexibility you keep hearing about... we shouldn’t go to that well unless it’s a no brained home run.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

I'd probably support this, but at that point Chicago is just accepting the two second rounders and taking a symbolic pick for PR purposes, I guess.

Yup... that’s why it’s a fake first.

 

[♪alt13]

Cleveland gets favors dumps some contracts on Chicago. Chicago gets a Cleveland first we get Mirotic

 

[Gameface]

Most teams haven't won a championship, period.

Exactly, so should we all hate our team unless they are poised to win a championship? Should we be disappointed with playoff runs that only get to the second round?

I mean we all want the Jazz to win a championship, obviously. And I'm for the FO doing what it can to make that as likely as possible, including tanking here and there as that is the way of the modern NBA. But there is a section of the fan base that wants draft picks more than they want a team worth watching. Their attraction to the NBA is in prospects more than in the success of the team. It's swing for the fences and strike out 100 times but just keep swinging because it's a home run or nothing. No use getting on base this season and moving to second next, and maybe end up stealing home if things fall right. Just swing for the home run or strike out.

Different strokes for different folks, but I enjoyed last season, I have barely watched any games this season, even on a Saturday afternoon when I have nothing else to do, I don't really think of spending time watching a losing team play losing basketball. So for me to be an active fan I want a team that at the minimum has a winning record. I'm a Jazz fan no matter what, but my level of interest and participation in fan activities will rise and fall based on how well the team is doing.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

Exactly, so should we all hate our team unless they are poised to win a championship? Should we be disappointed with playoff runs that only get to the second round?

I mean we all want the Jazz to win a championship, obviously. And I'm for the FO doing what it can to make that as likely as possible, including tanking here and there as that is the way of the modern NBA. But there is a section of the fan base that wants draft picks more than they want a team worth watching. Their attraction to the NBA is in prospects more than in the success of the team. It's swing for the fences and strike out 100 times but just keep swinging because it's a home run or nothing. No use getting on base this season and moving to second next, and maybe end up stealing home if things fall right. Just swing for the home run or strike out.

Different strokes for different folks, but I enjoyed last season, I have barely watched any games this season, even on a Saturday afternoon when I have nothing else to do, I don't really think of spending time watching a losing team play losing basketball. So for me to be an active fan I want a team that at the minimum has a winning record. I'm a Jazz fan no matter what, but my level of interest and participation in fan activities will rise and fall based on how well the team is doing.

I get that, but I don't hate the team if they aren't winning... and I will watch regardless.

Last season was great. I wanted to bring the band back together, but looking forward the best thing for us long term imo is to get a high pick. We have a lot of stuff that is not attached too, so this was always kind of a transition year. I don't see just saying we are going to win a handful of extra games to ruin what could be a better pick. Move some of that stuff that isn't coming back and play for next year. Make sure Rudy is completely healthy before bringing him back... like no brace needed and has passed all the balance beams. Or hold him out long enough that it makes sense to just wait until after AS break.

 

[Gameface]

I get that, but I don't hate the team if they aren't winning... and I will watch regardless.

Last season was great. I wanted to bring the band back together, but looking forward the best thing for us long term imo is to get a high pick. We have a lot of stuff that is not attached too, so this was always kind of a transition year. I don't see just saying we are going to win a handful of extra games to ruin what could be a better pick. Move some of that stuff that isn't coming back and play for next year. Make sure Rudy is completely healthy before bringing him back... like no brace needed and has passed all the balance beams. Or hold him out long enough that it makes sense to just wait until after AS break.

I agree with all of that. This is not a year I want a few extra wins. This is not a year or a team that I want being 6-7-8 seed and they aren't getting 5 or above, so yeah. Gobert needs to get healthy and then some. Some trades need to happen, but not "win now" trades.

 

[fishonjazz]

..............Memo..........Niko

Age 23...6.9 PPG.......10.2 PPG
Age 24...9.6 PPG.......11.8 PPG
Age 25...12.9 PPG.....10.6 PPG
Age 26...18 PPG........17.3 PPG

Niko the better shooter and rebounder.
Memo the better defender and post up guy.

I was/am a huge huge memo fan and probably would rather have memo than niko at this point in niko career....... but I think niko fits way better next to gobert and has the potential to better than memo. (Memo was an all star one year doe iirc)

I miss everything about memo