What's new

Is the death penalty morally wrong?

Like with this James Holmes guy from the Colorado shooting. I could give a **** less about him.

I seriously would be all for killing him and sending him out in pain.

Send a message to the rest of the freaks in this world. Those acts of violence won't be tolerated. This whole idea of saving people based on they may or may not be mentally ill is retarded as ****. He knew enough to know what he was doing. That's all that matters. Housing and keeping them alive is joke
 
But I've done nothing in my life that would support your claim.

So am I the violent one, or are the freaks you are protecting the real violent freaks?

You are advocating for the death of innocent people. You have done that.
 
You are advocating for the death of innocent people. You have done that.

What are you talking about? When did I say I advocate the death of innocent people? In fact, I've said the exact opposite. I'm advocating the death of people who murder innocent people. Huge difference.

Why do you have to put words in my mouth to make your argument? Stick to what is actually said. Not what you want to believe.
 
It's ironic that Gameface is trying to get me to make a false confession, and at the same time bitch about people being talked into false confessions.

Things that make you go hmm


See Gameface and Jimmy eat jazz, it's not that hard at all to not let people talk you into false confessions.
 
Buts still though. I can guarantee that no cop or any body on this planet will get me to say I did something I didn't do, unless I'm in some other country and they are physically beating the life out of me. Even then it's not likely. Seriously, you are really dumb if you let some detective talk you into confessing something you didn't do. I'll take my chances with a public defender over just out right saying I did it, and guaranteeing I go to jail and get the death penalty. How much worse does it get than that?

And of course we all know that what you'd do in theory (in practice, who the hell knows?) should set the standard for how our laws and justice system are structured, as it is clear that your experience effectively encapsulates the collective experience, or what should be the collective experience, for all other members of society.
 
Im pro choice.
Someone wants to die then I think it should be their right.

I think it's kind of selfish to force someone to live who doesn't want to.

I would be pissed if I wanted the death penalty and was told that I couldn't get it and instead was forced to live miserably in prison for the rest of my life.
To me that is cold blooded, uncharitable, and unreasonable

Fair enough. No sense elaborating more. I disagree, but I'm sure you know that already.
 
And of course we all know that what you'd do in theory (in practice, who the hell knows?) should set the standard for how our laws and justice system are structured, as it is clear that your experience effectively encapsulates the collective experience, or what should be the collective experience, for all other members of society.

Bro. If I was in charge of everything and made all the rules, this world would be a lot better place to live.
 
With little effort, it is easy to find any number of articles, scholarly and not, on how interrogation methods, and under what conditions, people will confess to crimes they did not commit.

https://pss.sagepub.com/content/7/3/125.short

https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=2410370

https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=1134094

https://psycnet.apa.org/journals/lhb/29/2/211/

Etc.

Etc.

I mean, really, that people, with disturbing frequency, confess to crimes they did not commit is not, or should not be, controversial. To deny it is to stick one's head in the sand and willfully play ignorant.
 
Fair enough. No sense elaborating more. I disagree, but I'm sure you know that already.
Thanks for keeping it respectful.
I understand your side btw
Good discussion
 
What are you talking about? When did I say I advocate the death of innocent people? In fact, I've said the exact opposite. I'm advocating the death of people who murder innocent people. Huge difference.

Why do you have to put words in my mouth to make your argument? Stick to what is actually said. Not what you want to believe.

You said you think its fine if a person who gave a false confession is executed. Because they're dumb, so it's okay to kill them.

That, in my opinion, is advocating violence against the innocent.

And I'm not protecting anyone. I'm expressing my opinion that the death penalty is bad for society, the innocent. I've already said I couldn't care less what happens to murderers. I just don't want to be a murderer and I don't want people killed on my behalf, and I don't support a system with as high an error rate as our justice system being in charge of killing people.
 
Firearms are most effective when not fired. A firearm gives the holder the ability to kill, yes. A person who poses that threat is a powerful deterrent. Armed guards are used to prevent attacks, not to gun people down with their killing machines.

So, besides just being killing machines guns are also very powerful deterrents. They can diffuse a violent situation without being fired.

Guns can also be used exclusively for recreation. That's how I've used all the guns I've ever owned. Shooting accurately is a challenge and requires skill and practice. No one needs to die for a person to become proficient in the use of a firearm. I never considered my firearms as home defense weapons. I was never willing to keep them at the ready in such a way as that they could be deployed effectively in the event of a home invasion or robbery.

Any professional who carries a firearm as part of their job will tell you that they have been trained to shoot to stop the threat. No professional is trained to shoot to kill. Their gun is not a killing machine, it is a threat stopping tool.

Guns propel a projectile at a high rate of speed along a predictable trajectory. That's what they do. That's what they are designed to do. To say that they only kill is beyond simplistic. It is ignorant of the facts. What makes a gun different than a hand grenade? If they are only meant to kill then why is there a difference? What is the purpose of that difference? Killing can be achieved with much simpler designs and methods, so why is a gun designed the way it is?

fishonjazz, if you want to say guns are only for killing please at least address those points. I've made them several times before directly in response to your comments. It's frustrating that you repeat the same thing yet remain completely unaware of, or are completely unwilling to even acknowledge the arguments to the contrary. It's fine of you disagree, but at least know what you're disagreeing with.
 
Firearms are most effective when not fired. A firearm gives the holder the ability to kill, yes. A person who poses that threat is a powerful deterrent. Armed guards are used to prevent attacks, not to gun people down with their killing machines.

So, besides just being killing machines guns are also very powerful deterrents. They can diffuse a violent situation without being fired.

Guns can also be used exclusively for recreation. That's how I've used all the guns I've ever owned. Shooting accurately is a challenge and requires skill and practice. No one needs to die for a person to become proficient in the use of a firearm. I never considered my firearms as home defense weapons. I was never willing to keep them at the ready in such a way as that they could be deployed effectively in the event of a home invasion or robbery.

Any professional who carries a firearm as part of their job will tell you that they have been trained to shoot to stop the threat. No professional is trained to shoot to kill. Their gun is not a killing machine, it is a threat stopping tool.

Guns propel a projectile at a high rate of speed along a predictable trajectory. That's what they do. That's what they are designed to do. To say that they only kill is beyond simplistic. It is ignorant of the facts. What makes a gun different than a hand grenade? If they are only meant to kill then why is there a difference? What is the purpose of that difference? Killing can be achieved with much simpler designs and methods, so why is a gun designed the way it is?

fishonjazz, if you want to say guns are only for killing please at least address those points. I've made them several times before directly in response to your comments. It's frustrating that you repeat the same thing yet remain completely unaware of, or are completely unwilling to even acknowledge the arguments to the contrary. It's fine of you disagree, but at least know what you're disagreeing with.
I would say that a dude holding a grenade is also a great detterent and a grenade could be used recreationally.

An electric chair is a detterent to keep people from murdering people imo.


Maybe you are right that guns are not only for killing in this day and age but the reason that guns were originally created (and therefore the reason they exist) was for killing. They were not created originally for recreational use. Back in the day no one was wasting bullets/gunpowder, firing pins and the guns themselves to just go out "shootin."
Ammo was much harder to come by and more precious.
 
The reason guns are used recreationally imo is because they are easy to acquire and everybody has one.

Grenades on the other hand are very hard to get (for civilians) so they don't get used recreationally.

I have a feeling that if wal mart started selling grenades that people would go out in the hills to "blow **** up" just like they take their guns and go "shootin."

Fwiw I have a couple guns and I occasionally go shooting as well so it's not like I think there is something wrong with doing that.
I still think that a guns purpose is to kill. And that is why they are so effective as a detterent. Even more so than a grenade would be since a gun is a more efficient and predictable killing machine than a grenade
 
No professional is trained to shoot to kill. Their gun is not a killing machine, it is a threat stopping tool.

I'm confused by this part. In the past people have criticized cops and said "why did the cop shoot the guy so many times?"
And "why not just shoot the criminal in the leg and wound him?"
And I have saw your response that the cops are trained to shoot center mass with multiple shots. That seems like a good way to kill a person.

Also, the best way to stop a threat would be death to the threat so shooting to stop a threat and shooting to kill seem like they could mean the same thing
 
I would add that how something gets used does not determine its original purpose for why it was created.

We would all agree that an electric chair is a killing machine created for that purpose.

However, if you gave me an electric chair I could choose to just not turn it on and use it as a normal chair in my man cave to sit and watch jazz games in.
Or frat boys could keep the juice on low and use it for games (whoever finishes chugging their beer last has to get a low dose of electrocution and whatnot)
It would still have been initially created for killing even if it was no longer used that way
 
I'm confused by this part. In the past people have criticized cops and said "why did the cop shoot the guy so many times?"
And "why not just shoot the criminal in the leg and wound him?"
And I have saw your response that the cops are trained to shoot center mass with multiple shots. That seems like a good way to kill a person.

Also, the best way to stop a threat would be death to the threat so shooting to stop a threat and shooting to kill seem like they could mean the same thing

They could but not always and that is the difference. I'm sure we can all find police shootings where the person lived. If the cops were shooting to kill instead of stopping the threat then they would have finished those people off.

Center mass is the fastest and most effective way to stop the threat. It is also highly lethal but not always lethal.
 
They could but not always and that is the difference. I'm sure we can all find police shootings where the person lived. If the cops were shooting to kill instead of stopping the threat then they would have finished those people off.

Center mass is the fastest and most effective way to stop the threat. It is also highly lethal but not always lethal.
True.
Cops usually are not trying to murder someone to the point that if a guy is laying on the ground and not moving they will put in a fresh clip and empty that into the guy too but I think there are many times when mace, rubber bullets, tazers, etc would stop the threat just fine and yet they choose to shoot 5+ shots into the dudes chest instead.

Of course not every cop will always follow their training all the time either so im sure GF is correct about them being trained to stop the threat..... They just don't always choose the correct way to stop the threat without killing the bad guy
 
Back
Top