It is good to be back!!!

[Siro]

what do you suppose "flux in and out of existence" means?

I am talking about the Heisenberg Uncertainty (well, something analogous to it).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uncertainty_principle

In physics, atoms and other tiny entities have a bit of a probabilistic existence, where things such as position and momentum are not fixed. Like the famous cat who is alive dead or both.

Edit: In case that wasn't clear, things in the universe can pop in and out of existence. So a vacuum is only empty on average. In reality, particles are popping in and out of existence in that vacuum all the time. The universe could be the product of a similar process, where the "vacuum" is the average state, and we happen to be living in an above average situation.

 

[The Midnight]

I already responded to your first point. You won't accept any objective explanation, regardless of its merits. You want your supernatural one. But you won't explain what supernatural, spiritual, god, and whatever else actual mean. If this is just a personal thing that you can't explain to anyone else, why do you bother me with it??

As for love, I'm not sure what you're talking about. Are you talking about love being some sort of magic? You obviously can explain such physical phenomena quite easily. Love is pretty well understood, from the chemical releases of infatuation, to the reinforced neural patterns of attachment. I never thought that my love for anyone is so cheap as to be immaterial. It is a physical system that evolved to do what it does. I find that beautiful. Comforting even.

I am going out. I will respond tomorrow if you say anything that requires a response.

Are you telling me that when you express love to your loved one, you show them all the physical & chemical reactions in your body? And tell them that this is proof that "I Love You"?

Are you being serious right now?

 

[Siro]

Are you telling me that when you express love to your loved one, you show them all the physical & chemical reactions in your body? And tell them that this is proof that "I Love You"?

Are you being serious right now?

I assume that my actions toward those I love express my love for them. What do you do? Spray them with spiritual love juice?

Edit: Here for 5-10 minutes more.

 

[The Midnight]

I assume that my actions toward those I love express my love for them. What do you do? Spray them with spiritual love juice?

Edit: Here for 5-10 minutes more.

Yes exactly my point - you can show your love through your actions. BUT - if I were to ask you to prove to me to beyond doubt that the love for your wife exists within you, it's essentially not possible. You can show me all the examples of why you loved her. What you've done for her, all the presents you've bought for her, etc, etc,

And yet, another person can never be 100% convinced that you loved her.

It is the same with God... PKM, me or WhiskyPriest would never ever be able to convince you... all we can do is ask you to keep an open heart and an open mind.

 

[Dr. Jones]

I am talking about the Heisenberg Uncertainty (well, something analogous to it).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uncertainty_principle

In physics, atoms and other tiny entities have a bit of a probabilistic existence, where things such as position and momentum are not fixed. Like the famous cat who is alive dead or both.

Will be interesting to see if anything new comes from LHC's resuming of atom smashing in '15. I doubt anything of consequence in that go 'round.

 

[Siro]

Will be interesting to see if anything new comes from LHC's resuming of atom smashing in '15. I doubt anything of consequence in that go 'round.

I edited the post you quoted for clarification.

The LHC found what it was built to find. Anything else would be a wonderful surprise.

 

[Dr. Jones]

Yes exactly my point - you can show your love through your actions. BUT - if I were to ask you to prove to me to beyond doubt that the love for your wife exists within you, it's essentially not possible. You can show me all the examples of why you loved her. What you've done for her, all the presents you've bought for her, etc, etc,

And yet, another person can never be 100% convinced that you loved her.

It is the same with God... PKM, me or WhiskyPriest would never ever be able to convince you... all we can do is ask you to keep an open heart and an open mind.

I am curious. Are you willing to keep an open heart/mind as to the possibility of no God?

 

[The Midnight]

I am curious. Are you willing to keep an open heart/mind as to the possibility of no God?

Yes of course, and he asks us to wrestle with it.

Israel - literally means "the one who wrestles with God".


It's only when we wrestles with him, and the question of his existence, that we grow closer to the truth. It's only through wrestling with this question that when it comes to our final days, that we can have the strongest conviction, and our faith does not waver.

 

[Siro]

Yes exactly my point - you can show your love through your actions. BUT - if I were to ask you to prove to me to beyond doubt that the love for your wife exists within you, it's essentially not possible. You can show me all the examples of why you loved her. What you've done for her, all the presents you've bought for her, etc, etc,

And yet, another person can never be 100% convinced that you loved her.

It is the same with God... PKM, me or WhiskyPriest would never ever be able to convince you... all we can do is ask you to keep an open heart and an open mind.

Ah, you refute your own argument. Love cannot be proven to be real because there is the possibility it isn't. So someone can tell his wife he loves her, he can buy her presents, etc etc etc, when in fact, he's not in love with her. That is the sole reason it's not possible to "prove" you love someone. Had that not been the case, proof would not be unnecessary. Similarly, you may "believe" in god as much as you want, but my knowledge and science are real. Your beliefs, whether it is about someone's love for you, or the existence of god, are only real inside your head, and that does not affect the truth of the world at large.

 

[Dr. Jones]

I edited the post you quoted for clarification.

The LHC found what it was built to find. Anything else would be a wonderful surprise.

I am outclassed here. I admit that.. so take my questions as sincere rather than argumentative.

I disagree that they found what they were looking for.. it's more like they were surprised to not find what they were expecting to find. The reason for the '15 experiments is to turn up the heat and see if the evidence is indeed there (contradicting the current findings). As I understand it.

 

[Siro]

I am outclassed here. I admit that.. so take my questions as sincere rather than argumentative.

I disagree that they found what they were looking for.. it's more like they were surprised to not find what they were expecting to find. The reason for the '15 experiments is to turn up the heat and see if the evidence is indeed there (contradicting the current findings). As I understand it.

They found the Higgs Boson (using the scientific definition of discovery). That is what they were looking for. They also found it around the energy level they expected, and with the anticipated properties. I believe they also found an anomaly in the decay rate of the Boson, which they will investigate in the coming years.

 

[The Midnight]

Ah, you refute your own argument. Love cannot be proven to be real because there is the possibility it isn't. So someone can tell his wife he loves her, he can buy her presents, etc etc etc, when in fact, he's not in love with her. That is the sole reason it's not possible to "prove" you love someone. Had that not been the case, proof would not be unnecessary. Similarly, you may "believe" in god as much as you want, but my knowledge and science are real. Your beliefs, whether it is about someone's love for you, or the existence of god, are only real inside your head, and that does not affect the truth of the world at large.

I'm talking specifically about proving a love that is real - hence I've used the love between you and your wife/mother/father as an example.


Let's take it as a given that your love for them is real - I argue that there is no way to scientifically or otherwise to proof that "your love for them" is real.

I then argue that - Just because you cannot prove that love, it doesn't mean that the love itself doesn't exist.