Jackpotting Around Podcast: Episode 37 - Keandre Ashley of Hoop Intellect

[fishonjazz]

Tre cannot get to the rim due to lack of agility

he has little explosion

These 2 things are incorrect. He has fantastic agility as he showed in the workouts and in the video Handlogten posted showing all him missing at the rim. He has great explosion as he showed in the workouts and this video.

View: https://www.youtube.com/shorts/qoXEGlNK7jQ



Again, you can totally talk about the fact that he doesn't attack the paint or whatever but the reason isn't due to lacking quickness and explosiveness or athleticism. He has those things. Fair to say he doesn't use those tools/gifts but he literally does have those tools/gifts.

 

[SoberasHotRod]

I also enjoy the “dumpy white guy” argument. There is a dumpy slow white guy that is a multi-time MVP lol.

Yeah, I don't think Kon will have any problems with being a good player. We've seen quick thinking/reacting can overcome foot speed. The same is probably true of Queen though as well.

I do kind of wish that Kon was able to do his athletic testing at the combine though, because it would be nice to know if he is just low, or like historically low. It's obviously different for a guard to be unathletic vs a big.

 

[fishonjazz]

View: https://x.com/slipthescreen/status/1830752589140390294?s=46

This is interesting. I keep seeing people say he cant get to the rim. Then I see this video showing him getting to the rim with ease over and over again. Using explosiveness and speed to get past dudes and right to the rim. He appears to have the speed, explosiveness, quickness to get to the rim according to this video. Sucks at finishing at the rim in this video though. Hopefully that is something he can improve upon if the jazz draft him. Nice to know he has the physical ability at least.

Im a jazz fan. I hope that whoever the jazz draft improves on the warts they have (they all have warts). I might be different than most fans in this regard. I get the feeling that people who dont like Kon are hoping that if the jazz draft him they will be proven right that he is too slow, short (length), and unathletic to be any good and people who dont like tre will be proven right that he cant play defense and cant get to trim just like they said and people who dont like Ace want him to be too arrogant and dumb to ever be any good. Some people like to bump old posts showing how smart they were and how dumb everyone else was. Not really my thing.

I just want the dude the jazz draft to be amazing. The Jazz are the ones who will make the decision of who to draft. I hope they draft the best player in the draft and Tre, Kon, Ace, VJ, Fears or whoever makes Flagg an afterthought in this draft.

 

[HadAnEffectHere]

This is interesting. I keep seeing people say he cant get to the rim. Then I see this video showing him getting to the rim with ease over and over again. Using explosiveness and speed to get past dudes and right to the rim. He appears to have the speed, explosiveness, quickness to get to the rim according to this video. Sucks at finishing at the rim though. Hopefully that is something he can improve upon if the jazz draft him. Nice to know he has the physical ability at least.

I mean, these are literally the times when he actually succeeded and against high school kids. Selection bias could not be stronger here.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

Yeah, I don't think Kon will have any problems with being a good player. We've seen quick thinking/reacting can overcome foot speed. The same is probably true of Queen though as well.

I do kind of wish that Kon was able to do his athletic testing at the combine though, because it would be nice to know if he is just low, or like historically low. It's obviously different for a guard to be unathletic vs a big.

He will do it at some point. He should have tanked his standing reach like Tre did.

 

[SoberasHotRod]

I think it's clear that Tre has the physical tools to get to the rim and be successful there at some point. I think his current lack of attempts/success are due to a combination of:

- He doesn't like contact (could be concerning for future success)
- He hasn't learned the skills of how to finish at the rim (should be correctable, but isn't a guarantee)
- He really likes to shoot it (understandable given how good he is, could be correctible, but probably just who he is)

 

[SoberasHotRod]

He will do it at some point. He should have tanked his standing reach like Tre did.

Is that true? They will make him do the athletic testing that will become publicly available?

Or are you just talking about the fact that he will have to do athletic testing as part of his pro day/team work out stuff?

 

[Thee Jazz Fan]

These 2 things are incorrect. He has fantastic agility as he showed in the workouts and in the video Handlogten posted showing all him missing at the rim. He has great explosion as he showed in the workouts and this video.

View: https://www.youtube.com/shorts/qoXEGlNK7jQ



Again, you can totally talk about the fact that he doesn't attack the paint or whatever but the reason isn't due to lacking quickness and explosiveness or athleticism. He has those things. Fair to say he doesn't use those tools/gifts but he literally does have those tools/gifts.

imo the biggest thing holding him back is he is he needs to get stronger, it’s his biggest weakness imo. Building strength and getting a little bigger in the muscle department will help both his defense and explosion to the hoop. He has all the other tools.

 

[fishonjazz]

I mean, these are literally the times when he actually succeeded and against high school kids. Selection bias could not be stronger here.

I mean he literally has excellent speed, quickness, and hops/explosion. Selection bias could not be stronger than when you say his lack of athleticism prevents him from getting to the rim.

 

[fishonjazz]

I think it's clear that Tre has the physical tools to get to the rim and be successful there at some point. I think his current lack of attempts/success are due to a combination of:

- He doesn't like contact (could be concerning for future success)
- He hasn't learned the skills of how to finish at the rim (should be correctable, but isn't a guarantee)
- He really likes to shoot it (understandable given how good he is, could be correctible, but probably just who he is)

I think the first example and the third example are most likely to be the biggest factors. And the first one is a problem that concerns me. I was similar when I played. I was a great 3 point shooter. I had height and great ball handling skills but I didn't like contact and I was such a good shooter that my motto was "why take the 2 when you can drain the 3?" I see this in tre a lot. I also felt like Vince Carter could have been Kobe but he didn't like contact either and didn't get to the line enough.

I also think there is a chance that his coach in college might have seen him be such a deadly outside shooter in practice and in games that maybe he was encouraged to just settle for threes since threes are worth more points that 2's. His lack of drives and free throw attempts are definitely concerning. It does seem like he doesn't have big personality red flags and might be coachable so Im hoping that if he is drafted by the jazz and the coaches want him to use his physical gifts to attack the paint more that he will be willing to. but some dudes just hate contact and that cant be changed. I was like that. However if seeking contact was the difference between me making millions and millions of dollars or not then I would have probably started to seek contact. Tre will likely make way more money in his career if he develops that part of his game. Hopefully that will motivate him. Or hopefully he ends up being a steph curry level shooter and then it doesn't really matter all that much lol.

 

[HermanG]

This Kon vs Tre forum feud has me asking big questions from myself....

Should I scout Kon and participate before its too late, or just grab some popcorn?

 

[fishonjazz]

Looking at Steph Curry freshman stats compared to Tre is interesting.
Tre took 4.2 free throws per game and steph took 4.3. Tre shot 87% and Steph 85%
Tre took 6.8 threes per game and steph took 8.8 threes per game. Tre shot 40% and steph shot 41%
Tre took 9.1 two point shots per game and steph took 6.6 two point shots per game. Tre shot 45% and steph shot 53%

Tre shot more two point shots than steph and less 3's. Went to the line the same amount. Tre maybe should have shot even more threes and less twos which kind of goes against what people seem to think he needs to do more (attack the paint). Meanwhile Steph was pretty good on his two point shots but took less of them and settled for more three point attempts.

Looking at stephs nba stats its very similar. He takes TONS of threes (11 attempts per game most seasons) and hardly any two point shots (8 attempts per game or so) and doesn't get to the line much (4 or 5 times per game). Then again steph is steph. the greatest shooter of all time.

I have seen some Tre comps to buddy hield who shot 3 three point attempts per game and made 24% of them as a freshman and took more 2's than 3's