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Jazz rebuilt too fast

The Jazz had 2 all-time great players playing together for more than 15 years. They made the NBA Finals twice, but typically lost in the 2nd or 3rd round of the playoffs every year. They didn't get past the first round for a few years until they brought in Jeff Malone and later Jeff Hornacek. I think Jazz fans are a bit spoiled. The Jazz used to sell out their arenas and fans would be excited about making the playoffs. Now the expectations seem to be higher all of a sudden, and everyone is disappointed unless the Jazz make the WCF or the Finals.

The Jazz are actually in a pretty good position. They have decent players at every position. They have youth. And for the first time in years, they have a little financial flexibility. If the Jazz can pick up one or two key players, they'll be right near the top of the west.
 
I disagree. Gasol trade is what killed us. We definitely make the WCF and have a good shot at winning the west at least one of the past three seasons if not for that. The Lakers could have very well beaten us without Gasol though, but you figure with Bynum's injuries they get a lower seed and someone else takes them out.

Absolutely. That "gift" in the form of a trade shifted all the balance in the West, and even in the league. If Gasol is not wearing a Lakers uniform, maybe Boozer is not getting his head handed to him in every Lakers series on a platter.
 
catchall...The goal every year needs to be to win a championship or you shouldnt even play the game

Uhhh. I hope you're kidding. If you think like that, you end up like the NY Knicks, 100 million over the cap, with big names, and no real talent.
 
catchall...The goal every year needs to be to win a championship or you shouldnt even play the game

It takes years, skill and some luck to build and hone a championship-level team. You have to build the team piece by piece over several seasons, as opportunities to improve present themselves. Of course, teams try to build towards that, but any given year there are only really 2 or 3 legit contenders. Ninety-percent of teams in the league are not really contenders during any given season. Jazz fans used to get excited about winning a round or two in the playoffs. Now fans expect more because they've been spoiled by the Stockton/Malone era.
 
We mention the Clippers because it's extremely difficult to build a championship contender through the NBA draft lottery. Even Utah got to where it was contending in the west because of free agency (Okur and Boozer). Sure, there are times where you can luck out in the NBA Draft (the Jazz with Stockton & Malone, though neither were lotto picks and the Spurs with Robinson and Duncan), but overall, it's just not very common in the NBA. There is a reason many lottery teams remain in the lottery year in and year out and it's because more times than not, you're going to fail rebuilding that way.

Don't believe me? Look at the top-ten lotto teams this year and see how they've fared since 2000.

#1. Wizards - Washington has been in the lottery six times. Including two number one draft picks. Sure, they had a nice string from 2004-2007 where they made the playoffs. But what do they have to show for it? In 2005 they made it to the second round. Wow.

#2. Sixers - Philadelphia has been in the lottery five times. Since their Finals run in 2001, the franchise has hit the skids - only advancing beyond the first round once.

#3. Nets - New Jersey has been in the lottery only twice. So this is a team that has been fairly stable the last decade.

#4. Timberwolves - Minnesota has been in the lottery seven times since 2000. What's even worse? All seven lotto picks came after 2004.

#5. Kings - Sacramento has had a lottery pick in the last three drafts. Which is low, but when you consider their best era was from 2000-2006, you understand why.

#6. Warriors - Golden State has been in the lottery nine times in that span. What have they done with those picks?

#7. Pistons - Detroit has had four lotto picks since 2000. All but this year's pick came in the early part of 00. None of those three picks prior to their title contention actually had a major impact. We're talking Mateen Cleaves, Rodney White and Darko Milicic.

#8. Clippers - LA has had ELEVEN lottery picks since 2000. They were used as the example for a reason. What do they have to show for it?

#9. Jazz - Even Utah has had four lotto picks since 2000. Williams was a great get, but the others? Well I guess the jury is still out on Hayward. And Utah only got that pick through a trade and only drafted Williams because of a trade (more on that later).

#10. Pacers - Indiana has had four lotto picks since 2000. However, three have come in consecutive years (10, 09, 08). That's a franchise we should emulate!

So of those teams listed, half have had lottery picks five or more times since 2000. One only got that pick via trade and not sucking (Utah) and two others dominated a good portion of the 00s without the help of lotto picks (Sacramento and Detroit). That leaves the Nets, who were fairly consistent in being a playoff team out east. The rest were bad this decade, even with a boatload of lotto picks.

Why were they bad? Because there is no bigger crapshoot than the NBA draft. Every NBA draft has a few lotto busts. And it happens because it's extremely difficult to predict how a player will transition from college (and how HS) to professional ball. So most picks are a big gamble. Rarely will you find a sure thing and mostly that guy is gone after the first pick.

Utah lucked out. The Jazz traded up to get Williams. Had they sat at number six, they probably don't get Williams. Certainly not Paul, who would've been gone regardless. Maybe we would've been able to get Raymond Felton?

All that even though Utah finished with the second worst record in the west.

That's the problem relying on the draft lottery. Not only do you have to hope your pick is correct (and don't Darko Milicic it), you've got to hope you get a lucky bounce here or there. Because even finishing with the worst record is no guarantee of getting the top pick.

Which ultimately means you'd have to tank on purpose and pray like the dickens you somehow ended up with the top-three and hopefully top-two.

Lota what ifs and reason why most teams that try to build through the lottery continually find themselves in the lottery. Because those picks are less tested and less a given than any trade or free agent could bring to an organization.

L.A. didn't win their titles because they drafted well. Neither did Boston or Miami or Detroit.

Phoenix didn't become an elite team in the mid-to-late 00s because they drafted Nash (okay, well you know what I mean!).

Sure, there are examples of teams doing it that way. But they're almost always the exception. If they were the rule, franchises like Clips and Warriors and Wizards would not find themselves in the NBA lottery year in and year out.

Which is why I have no issues with the way we rebuilt. It didn't net us a championship - but it provided some great memories after the worst stretch of Jazz basketball since before 1984.
 
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Teams have to get lucky in the draft, whether they pick in the lottery or not. Once in every 2 or 3 years there's a player who is a sure-fire star--Lebron, Duncan, Shaq, David Robinson, Hakeem, etc.--but they get picked #1. So as a team relying on the lottery, you have to hope that you get the #1 pick during one of those special years when a HOF player is sitting there for you. It's very rare, and there's no way you can count on it.

Every team needs a couple of foundational players. The Lakers have Kobe and Pau. Orlando has Dwight Howard. Phoenix had Amare and Nash. Miami had Wade. Etc. From there, it's a process of building on that foundation. Having one star player isn't enough to guarantee advancing in the playoffs--just ask Carmello, Dwayne Wade, Lebron, Tracy McGrady, Yao Ming, Dirk, etc.

As it stands right now, the Jazz, like other teams, really need another foundational star player. They have a full roster, but they need a big-time player to anchor the offense if they're going to become a true contender. Of course, that type of player is hard to get. The Jazz wanted to move up and draft Cousins, but weren't able to. Most teams get their 2nd foundational player through free agency--spending significant money on a proven player and attracting him to your team in part due to the ready supporting cast. This is how the Lakers got Shaq, and, of course, how Miami got Bosh and Lebron. The only alternative is to make a trade to acquire a disgruntled star player playing on a team that needs to blow up and start over. This is how the Lakers got Pau and how the Celtics got KG and Ray Allen. This is also how the Jazz got Jeff Malone and Jeff Hornacek.

Given that it's difficult for the Jazz to bring in big-time free agents, I think they are positioning themselves to make a trade for a star player that needs to be moved from his current team, like the Jeff Hornacek scenario. The Jazz have decided that they have Williams and a group of other solid players, that Boozer isn't good enough to be the second foundational star along with Williams, and now they have trade exceptions that will help a team that is floundering and wants the cap relief in a lopsided trade.

If the Jazz can bring Tomic over and make a good trade in the next year, they will have the foundation they need to make the WCF against either the Lakers or the Thunder. This year has to be the year of the trade. The Jazz have AK's expiring deal and the TPEs, both could help a team that needs to move a star player.
 
Unbelievable. A lot of you should stop being Jazz fans and try a new hobby.

This whole thread is ridiculous

The jazz went for it. In 03-04, they were going nowhere. They stunk. It seemed like the stock/malone days were far in the past and that the team would have no chance of being good again.
They went out and built a whole new team. Only missed the playoffs twice and then went to the conf finals, won 4 playoff series that everyone picked them to lose, and they basically destroyed the Houston franchise and pretty much ended the careers of TMac and Yao.

But that isn't good enough? The jazz should have just done nothing and tanked all of those years?
Like Porty, OKC and the Bucks?

How many playoff series have those teams won? None. How many will they win? Hard to say. I don't see Porty or the Bucks as any kind of threat. OKC is a popular upcoming team only because they got lucky and scored Durrant who is turning into a stud, but there are still major question marks there. OKC is hardly a major contender going into next year.

I do agree with the one poster that the jazz chances were killed by the Gasol deal, as were anyone else's chances in the west. That trade totally ruined the competitive ballance in the west, and it was done by underhanded design and blessed by Stern.
If that had not happened, I do think the jazz might have come out of the west once.

There are a lot of teams that have done worse than the jazz over the past 5 years. Telling me that OCK, Porty, and the bucks are teams we should be more like is beyond silly

Which teams have gone to the finals out of the west for the past 10 years? Lakers and Spurs. Oh, and Dallas one time.
Has any other team done that much better than the jazz in the west? Possibly Phoenix, but they have only been to the conf finals twice, and hardly had a chance to go any further.
 
And lets look at a few other teams in the west.
Clippers: we all know they are going nowhere, ever
Warriors: One season of barely making the playoffs and winning one series and having some fun and then losing all of their players and now sucking and having no hope for the future
Sac: They had a team that should have done better in the early 00's, but now, they are nothing and have no hope for the future
Minny: They went to the playoffs every year for a while, but had no real chance, one good year they went to the conf finals, then were forced to give up their star and now they have no hope for the future
Memphis: Had a couple of years of going to the playoffs, but were forced to give away gasol and now don't have much hope for the future
New Orleans: Scored chris paul, had a couple of decent years, but overpaid a few stiffs and are now stuck with a pissed off paul and a team full of overpaid stiffs without much hope for the future
 
Add Phoenix to the disgruntled list. Steve Nash was having MVP-type years and saw Joe Johnson, Shawn Marion and Amare Stoudemire each defect and get replaced by players like Raja Bell, Matt Barnes, Grant Hill and now Hakim Warrick. End of an era there.

Dallas couldn't get out of the first round more than once or twice despite getting a number of players they wanted with a heavy payroll--Erik Dampier, Shawn Marion, Jason Kidd, Caron Butler.

San Antonio is finally aging and in decline, now that Duncan and Manu are in their mid-thirties.

Denver is declining along with Chauncy Billups.

Portland won the lottery and was supposed to have the next Patrick Ewing, but hasn't been out of the first round...

Houston had two All-stars who couldn't get healthy. They had a 22-game winning streak and lost in the first round to us a few years ago.

I agree that the Gasol trade changed the face of the west. But I'm not sure the Jazz would have gotten past San Antonio or Phoenix in the past few years.

I still think the Jazz are close to being a contender, just a player or two away. The team is fairly well put together once you plug in Ante Tomic in a year.

Oh, and keep an eye on Sacramento. With Tyreke Evans, Demarcus Cousins, 3 decent PFs, and 2 okay SFs, they're on the rise.
 
You have to build the way we did before. Overpay for a FA or two, and then pick up a great player in the draft. Or, just be the Lakers.
 
06-07: caught a major break getting GS in round 2 but literally 1 series away from a championship (no way we were losing to that Cavs team)
07-08: so many people don't realize we were a championship-caliber-team, especially from Jan-May. One of the best offensive seasons in franchise history, and if any one of the following doesn't happen (#1 Gasol trade #2 Boozer's playoff struggles (attributed to his marital problems) #3 blatantly fixed officiating in Game 5 in LA) I'm sure we're in the Finals against Boston.

Obviously the post-Stockton/Malone rebuilding effort was made with a championship in mind, but you can find dozens of instances around the nba in the past decade of rebuilding plans that were drastically less successful than Utah's. Aiming for consecutive years in the lottery is like quitting your job and hoping you win the lottery.
 
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